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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 682228 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #675 on: February 05, 2012, 01:04:21 AM »

The air filter is at the other end of the inlet tract.  Years ago I showed a picture of one of the original pistons fitted by Triumph when the bike was made.  It had made ten runs down the salt and about 20,000 street miles.  There was a small horizontal hairline crack on a piston skirt midway up from the bottom.  There was a reinforcing rib on the inside of the skirt at that spot.  There was also bore and skirt wear caused by airborne contamination.

Salt was the cause of the bore and skirt wear, and excess rpm created the crack, I said.  I was wrong on both.  Some knowledgeable people looked at the parts.  It was too much wear for salt to be the cause.  Dirt was getting into the engine.  The worn piston was rocking in the bore and the crack was due to stress and fatigue from the piston rattling around.

These bikes have nakasil bores and good quality, but restrictive, paper filters.  Normal piston life is well over 50,000 miles.  I was using oiled gauze filters, both in the standard airbox and as pod filters. 

Someone on this forum occasionally says "What are you going to do different?  The oiled gauze filters were not working.  Oiled foam filters give me great filtering on my dirt bike.  Nothing gets past them.  Now I run oiled foam filters all of the time on the street or on the salt.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #676 on: February 05, 2012, 10:47:52 PM »

More Triumph specific stuff.

The theme of this build is "street roadster."  The carb setups that I run on the street are used on the salt with no changes.  The main jets are set for Bonneville and the rest of the jetting is set for the street.  This works well.  This is a powerful bike and I can do everything I need to do on the road without using the main jets.

The production engine class rules require OEM carb bodies.  This bike has 36 mm Keihin CVK constant velocity carbs.  They are sorta altitude compensating and they are good for the street in the western US.  There are lots of mountains everywhere and a fellow will cross many high passes in a days riding.  The drawback to the CVK's is the lack of tuning parts such as bigger float bowl needle valves, attachable air horns and filter adapters, etc.  They are also very expensive to replace.  I have not bored these carbs bigger for these reasons.  The only modification is to bore the little holes in the vacuum slides to bigger little holes.  Instructions are in the tuning guide on the "Jenks Bolts" website.

Lots of filter setups have been tried over the years.  Pod filters of any sort do not help these carbs.  They work well with open clamp-on velocity stacks or the standard air box.  A modified air box is what I use.  Inside is a filter.  I remove the internal restrictor plate and the snorkel on the inlet.  In place of the snorkel is a Norman Hyde bellmouth.  There is enough metal on the Hyde bellmouth to withstand some enlarging.  I do this and maintain its curved shaped lip.

The inability to hop-up the CVK's has dictated how I build the production class engine.  These carbs work OK with the 865cc kit and 813 grind cam I am running now.  The carbs seem to be close to their limits.  Another production engine option would be to put in a 911 cc bore kit with a nice hot cam.  I did not do this.  All indications are the carbs could not handle the bored motor without some mods and I could not find the parts to do them.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #677 on: February 06, 2012, 11:51:33 PM »

I was looking up some info on the internet for this post.  I typed "Triumph Twin Power" into the search engine and browsed through the company website.  They offer the service of boring the standard carbs to 39 mm, flow testing them, etc.  This is just perfect for my production motor.  Yes.  Life is good.  Very very good.

There are other than standard carbs for the Bonneville.  Keihin makes 35 mm racing smooth bore round slide carbs and 39 mm (actually 36 mm) racing flat slides.  I was told the smooth bores are better for road racing and the flat slides are best for wide open use such as land speed or drag racing.  The flat slides are plenty big.  The dyno curve for the 100 horsepower Triumph Performance engine I posted a month ago uses them.

The flatslides I use were sold by Triumph Performance.  They have an OEM throttle position sensor on them.  This tells the ignition module what I am doing with my right hand.  The default if the module gets no signal is to retard the ignition.  Not good.  These are three things that can be done when installing racing carbs.  One is to buy carbs with the sensor on them, like I did.  Another approach is to wire in a resistor in place of the throttle position sensor.  This fools the ignition box into thinking the sensor is there.  Resistor readings are in the "Triumph Twins Adjusting the Throttle Position Sensor" topic on the "Triumph Twin Power" website.  The third method is to program the ignition module to ignore the sensor.  I have not done these last two methods.  Folks have told me about them.

The bike was hard to start with the flatslides.  I blamed the carbs because they did not have an richening circuit and I also blamed ethanol gas.  I was full of carp.  The bike got real easy to start when I fixed the voltage regulator so the battery was always charged.  Also, I puled off the float bowls to change the pilot jets during some road tuning.  Evidently, I lost the little linkage rod that actuates the accelerator pump.  It never worked.  This pump can be used to richen the mixture for cold weather starting.  All in all, the flatslides are a good set of mixers.       
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #678 on: February 12, 2012, 11:07:47 PM »

The RICOR Intimidator fork valves are intended to allow the front suspension to travel and absorb road and track irregularities, and at the same time, they do not allow slow chassis movements such as pitching and diving.  The track was choppy last year and they helped a lot.  The oil I put in them was some Yamaha suspension fluid I had laying around.  I did not really know if it was the right weight.  The valves were calibrated by RICOR to use Amsoil 5 wt Shock Therapy.  I looked real hard to find this stuff.  Our local Honda shop carries it.  Photo 1 shows it.

The first step is to drain the oil as shown in Photo 2.  Unfortunately, not much comes out.  The trick is to tap the open fork tube end on a wooden block.  The RICOR valve comes out and a lot of oil with it.  See Photo 3.  Next, fill the fork with enough oil so the RICOR valve is submerged when it is installed.  This is about 420 cc on the Triumph.  See Photo 4.  Slowly stroke the work to remove bubbles.


* Fork Oil Change 1.JPG (131.91 KB, 485x480 - viewed 107 times.)

* Fork Oil Change 2.JPG (103.46 KB, 500x480 - viewed 108 times.)

* Fork Oil Change 3.JPG (112.11 KB, 528x480 - viewed 107 times.)

* Fork Oil Change 4.JPG (102.57 KB, 604x480 - viewed 95 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #679 on: February 12, 2012, 11:23:56 PM »

Now, push the RICOR valve down into the oil using the fork spring, as shown in Photo 5.  Make sure it is seated.  Remove the spring.  The valve should be submerged.

Most of us refill the fork tubes with the oil quantity listed in the shop manual.  Not so with the RICORs.  The oil level must be set with a sucker tool.  The one I made is shown in Photo 6.  It is a section of small diameter copper tube open on both ends.  Hobby shops sell the small diameter tubing.  A little hole is drilled in it like in the pix and a clear tube is installed on one end.  The little O-ring is set to the oil height.  I use 140 mm with the RICOR in the fork, tube fully compressed, and no spring.  The distance between the O-ring and the hole is 140 mm.  This is different than the level in the Triumph manual.

The sucker tube is lowered into the fork tube until the o-ring is flush with the tube top.  Excess oil is sucked out.  It is impossible to remove too much.  See Photo 6.  The last step is to install the spring and spacer and the fork tube cap.  It is easy to cross-thread the cap.  I clamp a socket in the vise, put the cap in it, and screw the fork tube onto the stationary cap by hand.  See pix 7.  This works well to prevent cross-threading.  All done. 


* Fork Oil Change 5.JPG (157.14 KB, 640x447 - viewed 108 times.)

* Fork Oil Change 6.JPG (116.72 KB, 520x480 - viewed 107 times.)

* Fork Oil Change 7.JPG (155.58 KB, 637x480 - viewed 118 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #680 on: February 14, 2012, 11:53:05 PM »

The SCTA rules say bias ply tires, only, with tubes.  I am not arguing with the rule, I just want to know some history about the when and why it exists.

It is for future planning.  The setup I run now has radial tires with tubes on spoked wheels.  I have two choices.  One is to switch to bias ply tires.  I really do not want to do this.  They are inferior in so many ways.  The other is to spend major money I do not have to buy a set of mag wheels for tubeless tires.  Hopefully the concern about tubes in radials can be addressed without either of these changes.  That is why I am asking.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #681 on: February 16, 2012, 12:28:03 AM »

Standard operating procedure is to clean up and repaint parts as needed when they are being worked on.  My usual method is to spray red primer first, then grey primer, then a first finish coat, steel wool it, and then to apply a second finish coat.   Pretty basic - and it has worked for years.

These forks are aluminum with factory applied black powdercoat.  I sanded the original finish until it was smooth and sprayed on grey Rustoleum engine primer.  No problem.  Then I let the paint cure until the next evening and sprayed on a coat of black Rustoleum engine enamel.  No problem.  I let this cure for two days and steel wooled the finish until it was dull.  Then I sprayed on another coat of black.  Immediately it crazed the first coat.

This has been a problem for me since paints went to xylene based solvents.  Is there an intermediate coat I can apply to stop this crazing?  Is there a spray can paint without xylene solvent?   


* Fork Oil Change 8.JPG (170.25 KB, 800x533 - viewed 130 times.)
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #682 on: February 16, 2012, 07:34:24 AM »

The one thing I noticed about engine enamel a few years ago, was that if you spilled gasoline on it, it would wash off!  I assumed that engine enamel, like high temperature manifold paint, needed to be heat cured.  I have found that regular Rustoleum gloss black rattle can paint gives me the highest gloss, but I  re-paint within 30 minutes to an hour without sanding between coats. Doesn't craze if you re-paint within the hour.

For aluminum, I usually bead blast and then use Duplicolor aluminum wheel paint, with or without primer, but it is still not very resistant to chipping. Is there a primer that really works with aluminum?

Tom
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« Reply #683 on: February 16, 2012, 01:23:52 PM »

Advice from my painter friend...................Warm the sanded aluminum and use acetone to clean............then paint and re-coat before dry.........cure in warm area (3-feet below the tube heater in the shop) for a day or more..........if you want modern paint to hold up to fuel.........mix additional hardener.
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
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« Reply #684 on: February 16, 2012, 10:36:51 PM »

It is cold in my shop.  That might be the problem.  Two days was not long enough for it to cure between coats.  I have had the same problem of gasoline dissolving modern engine black.  Hopefully someone on this forum knows a source for decent rattle can paint.

Two pictures from the Salem Roadster Show.  This was the only lake racer there.  The plaque said it was a lakes modified roadster.

The only four cylinder engine in the entire show was in a Volkswagen.  No inline fours of any kind.  I should have asked for a refund on my admission.  All in all, they were beautiful cars and bikes.   


* Lakes Modified Roadster Rear.JPG (226.25 KB, 800x539 - viewed 136 times.)

* Lakes Modified Roadster Front.JPG (221.26 KB, 800x506 - viewed 153 times.)
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« Reply #685 on: February 17, 2012, 12:17:29 PM »

Wobbly, that roadster runs in the fantasy Lakes Roadster class.
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« Reply #686 on: February 19, 2012, 09:30:07 PM »

This is a car in the Salem Roadster Show.  My father was a pre-war hot rodder.  War service calmed him down and he did not discuss it much.  Besides, I was a wild child and we did not have the most intimate relationship.  I am glad he did not kill me.  That is what I deserved.  This is what I recall from conversations with him, my mother's father, and some others who lived then.

Henry Ford was smart in many ways.  He, with a lot of help, figured out how to mass produce a lot of simple cars that folks could buy and maintain.  The cars themselves were sorta mediocre and had a lot of horse and buggy technology.  People bought them at a time when that was all they could afford and they had no status when times got better.  A lot of owners dumped them as soon as they could afford to buy something else.  This was perfect for my father and his buddies.  A whole lotta cars selling for cheap.  Ford's reluctance to change and update things helped too.  There was a lot of parts interchangeability.

There is a picture somewhere in the family showing my father in his Ford Model B.  It was by modern standards a ratmobile.  The top was sawed off and he was sitting in it with a big grin.  His family was conservative German and if this car was perceived to have any value he would not be allowed to do this.  My mother's father recalled this.  He was the terror of the neighborhood.  This photo is of a Model B standard.  A beautifully restored car.  Nothing like the one my father had but as close as I have seen.

My father was a Ford man until he died.  His daily driver was a Toyota for decades.  His weekend truck was always a Ford.  He admired their simplicity.  His saying was "Ford knows how to do something with one part that GM needs two to do."   


* Model B.JPG (208.2 KB, 800x476 - viewed 119 times.)
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4-barrel Mike
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« Reply #687 on: February 19, 2012, 10:13:43 PM »

It was a pleasure meeting you and your family, Bo.  I would have liked your father, I think.

Mike
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« Reply #688 on: February 19, 2012, 10:26:33 PM »

The SCTA rules say bias ply tires, only, with tubes.  I am not arguing with the rule, I just want to know some history about the when and why it exists.

It is for future planning.  The setup I run now has radial tires with tubes on spoked wheels.  I have two choices.  One is to switch to bias ply tires.  I really do not want to do this.  They are inferior in so many ways.  The other is to spend major money I do not have to buy a set of mag wheels for tubeless tires.  Hopefully the concern about tubes in radials can be addressed without either of these changes.  That is why I am asking.

Wobbly, I think you need to re-read the rule. There is no "only" in the rule. Also, it says "may be run with tubes". It does not say "radial tires may not run tubes"..
 IIRC, in the past they downgraded the speed rating 1 grade for tubes. I do not believe that is the case now if you use radial tubes in radial tires. Check with Tom Evans for your final answer...
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Larry Cason
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« Reply #689 on: February 20, 2012, 09:54:24 AM »

The Model B was also in my Dad's life until a 1940 sedan appeared................then the B-wire wheels and hubs became part of a farm wagon.........many years later that wagon sold for surprisingly good $$.........much more than the slightly newer wagon with the Chevy hubs and plain rims.
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
Chasis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
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