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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 713336 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #660 on: January 17, 2012, 10:34:07 PM »

Thanks for the advice.  An oiled foam air filter will support 3.5 horsepower per square inch filter area, according to David Vizard in "How to Build Horsepower."  The small filters I have will support 250 hp and the big ones will handle 322 hp.  That is plenty of capacity.  I am OK there.

There were some aftermarket carb inlets on the bike.  They did not match the ported inlet tracts.  Too small diameter.  Years ago I enlarged and polished the stock ones so they match the ports perfectly.  I found them in the bone pile and put them back on.  I am good in that area.

The A setup gave me 69.7 hp and the mixture was jetted for maximum power.  It was 16.4 to 1 at 6,000 rpm and it richened to 13.8 to 1 at 8,000 rpm.  The B setup gives 74.3 hp and the mixture is 15.9 to 1 at 6K and it dropped to 15.0 to 1 at 8K.  The feeling at the time was the B setup would give me even more hp if I was jetted to the best power mix ratio.  It was late and we were tired.  We did not do this.  I am confident that I am tuning to the third bounce, and maybe the fourth.  The big motor will be my retirement project.  I will experiment with the second bounce tuning then, when I have more time and lots less money.

Let me know if you see an extra copy of that book floating around.  I will buy it.

Thanks for the advice.

 


* Intake Mods 11.jpg (274.6 KB, 768x1008 - viewed 139 times.)
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #661 on: January 18, 2012, 04:20:10 AM »

Wobbly, try E-bay for the book. I've had amazing success that way.

It might be worth doing back to back tests on the dyno with and without your air filters. I found late model racing that the results aren't always as predicted and that the oiling of the filters is really critical. Only a little too much kills efficiency.

Pete
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« Reply #662 on: January 18, 2012, 09:11:29 PM »

Wobbly,
I found a cache of articles written by Prof. Blair on the website below which can be downloaded in pdf form.  I would have attached a couple of them here but they are a little too big to suit Jon’s attaching criteria.  They would give you a sense of the kinds of materials that are in the book.  I would suggest the September 2006 “Best Bell” and Dec/Jan 2008 “Back to Basics” to start with--or whichever of the others you might find interesting.  You have to pay attention when you are reading them.

http://www.profblairandassociates.com/RET_Articles.html
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #663 on: January 19, 2012, 01:08:42 AM »

Thanks, Peter, and Observer.  I will do som dyno comparison.  In the old days when that blue Bel-Ray foam filter oil came onto the market we had problems with over oiling.  That oil is real gooey.  This is what we did then.  Wash the filter and oil it according to instructions.  Wash it again and let it dry.  There will be enough residual oil in the filter for a race.  Do not do the second wash for road bikes or dirt bikes.  It worked last year.  There was some salt on the outside of the filter and none went through, as best as I can tell.  I will do some dyno testing and I will order the book.  The "pay attention" aspect will be difficult.

I order just enough stock to make the rings as shown in the blurry photo.  The ring outlines are scratched onto the metal and it is drilled, tapped, and attached to a plate scrap with countersunk screws.  The screws are located out of the path of the cutter.  The plate will be bolted down to the press table.



* Intake Mods 7.JPG (137.21 KB, 640x427 - viewed 170 times.)

* Intake Mods 8.JPG (166.26 KB, 640x427 - viewed 182 times.)

* Intake Mods 9.JPG (167.23 KB, 640x427 - viewed 174 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #664 on: January 20, 2012, 01:09:52 AM »

The drill press table is checked to make sure it is not tilted and the tilt clamp is tight.  The swing clamp is loosened, the chuck teeth are retracted, and a bearing ball is placed in the hole in the table center.  The chuck is pulled down tight over the ball and the motor is turned on for a fraction of a second.  Now the table and chuck rotation centers are aligned.

A pair of 1/16 pilot holes are drilled into the stock at the ring centers.  This is followed by a 1/4 drill.  The bigger holes are not through the part.  About halfway is OK.

The drill is removed and an old cutter with a 1/4 shank is turned upside down and chucked tight.  The chuck is lowered onto the part and the shank is in the 1/4 hole at the ring center.  Now the table, chuck, and ring rotation centers are aligned.   



* Intake Mods 10.JPG (106.43 KB, 640x421 - viewed 133 times.)

* Intake Mods 12.JPG (148.14 KB, 639x480 - viewed 129 times.)

* Intake Mods 13.JPG (114.08 KB, 640x427 - viewed 127 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #665 on: January 22, 2012, 01:10:34 AM »

The drill stop is shown in the first photo.  This is what I use to lock the drill press spindle at various heights.

An outside caliper is tightened down on to the plate.  One side of the caliper is on top of the plate and the other is on the bottom of the plate in the groove on the table.  The caliper is used to mark where the groove is on the plate.

Holes are drilled in the plate and it is bolted down.  The back end of a cutter in the chuck and the hole in the center of the ring are used to check if the plate is centered.  Previous photo Intake Mods 13 showed how I do this.   


* Intake Mods 14.JPG (158.72 KB, 800x533 - viewed 148 times.)

* Intake Mods 15.JPG (177.63 KB, 800x533 - viewed 169 times.)

* Intake Mods 16.JPG (128.67 KB, 640x442 - viewed 134 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #666 on: January 23, 2012, 12:35:08 AM »

Now it is time to machine the rings.  There are three clamps I looses and tighten.  ONLY ONE is loose at any one time.  The clamps are the depth stop that controls the cutter height, the table swing clamp, and the table rotation clamp.

A dial indicator is set up on the table.  This will tell me the distance the table is swung.

The table is swung to the side and the swing clamp is clamped.  The drill press is turned on, the cutter is lowered, and the spindle housing is clamped at the desired depth.  The table rotation clamp is loosened and the table is rotated to make a curcular cut.

Small cuts are made and the cutter speed is set to minimize chattering.  Sometimes I rest both hands on the table to minimize chatter.  It is a cold day when the picture was taken and I am wearing gloves. 


* Intake Mods 17.JPG (141.98 KB, 640x426 - viewed 142 times.)

* Intake Mods 18.JPG (99.61 KB, 640x426 - viewed 132 times.)

* Intake Mods 19.JPG (129.07 KB, 640x426 - viewed 149 times.)
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #667 on: January 23, 2012, 01:18:01 AM »

Be very, very careful wearing gloves around rotating machinery. They start to get wrapped up really quickly at the most inconvenient times and they aren't as easy to get out of under those circumstances as you might think. The results are often not very pretty.

Pete
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #668 on: January 24, 2012, 01:21:43 AM »

You are right, Peter.  It was real cold and that was the first time I wore them.  It will be a bad habit I will not start.  No more gloves.

Drama is fun to watch when others are the subjects.  It is no fun for a fellow doing machine work.  In the past there have been some thrilling moments when the final cut is made and the part and stock seperate.  Suddenly there is a loose object in the vicinity of a rotating cutter, like what happens in a mill, or a loose rotating part near a stationary bit, as with a lathe.

This habit I developed over the years.  The final cut does not seperate the parts.  I take the whole piece off of the machine tool and I do the final seperation by hand.  Its safer that way.

The intake mods are done.



* Intake Mods 20.JPG (133.5 KB, 599x480 - viewed 124 times.)

* Intake Mods 21.JPG (207.75 KB, 640x427 - viewed 156 times.)

* Intake Mods 22.JPG (135.61 KB, 640x426 - viewed 155 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #669 on: January 26, 2012, 12:41:45 AM »

One cylinder was running richer than the other last year at Bonneville.  The carbs are off and I checked a few things.  One main jet was too big.  This has been a problem for me before.  Non OEM main jets can have their own numbering system and some are not the size that is stamped on the side.  Using OEM jets prevents this and it is what I do.  Sometimes a person will bore out a main jet and forget it is larger than it says and it gets mixed up with the rest.  I bring my own virgin main jets to the dyno sessions to prevent this.  The bad jet was a new OEM one.  I will check them too in the future.

I get a few jets from my supply that are stamped the same size, a couple that are one size bigger, and two that are one size smaller.  Then, I stick a carpet needle in each one and compare how far it goes in.  The needle goes farther into a larger jet.  This shows me which jet is too big or too small.

It is time to order some bigger jets for this year's dyno work and it will be a good time to order float valves for the big 996 cc engine.  There is a chart on page 13 of http://factorypro.com/tech/carbkei.html  It shows the float valves sizes that are needed for various horsepowers.  The Triumph will produce near 100 hp or 50 hp per cylinder.  This takes a 3.2 mm float valve based on the chart.  The float valves in the carb are stamped with the size and they are 3.4 mm so I do not need new ones.  A company in Oregon near where I live gives me good mail order service for carb parts.  They are pjmotorsports.com  The Keihin FCR flatslides are good racing carbs.  There are all sorts of parts for them and they are readily available.


* Intake Mods 23.JPG (243.91 KB, 800x586 - viewed 125 times.)

* Intake Mods 24.JPG (180.64 KB, 800x533 - viewed 189 times.)
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thefrenchowl
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« Reply #670 on: January 26, 2012, 08:44:58 AM »

Hi wobblywalrus

Am I wrong in thinking that 2 jets of the same actual physical diameter will not pass the same amount of fuel due to machining tolerances, degree of finish, varrying efficiency of the 2 venturis, etc..., hence 2 jets with the same number on the side, usually related to their same flow rate on the same flow bench, will indeed not necesseraly have the same diameter?

Patrick
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #671 on: January 28, 2012, 01:53:10 AM »

Hi Patrick.  The needle test seems to work for these Keihin jets.  The hole size and flow rate are closely related as best as I can tell.  The AMAL main jets are flow bench tested and, like you say, they can sometimes have different hole sizes with the same flow rates.  Almost all of my good experience is with AMALs or Keihins and I do not know much about other carbs.

The picture of the road race bike on fire in the fuel line thread made me concerned.  Maj has a good idea with the double protection.  After work I went to performance Racing Equipment in Salem and asked Steve for advice.  He specializes in Aeroquip.  These are some of the things I bought.  One is a fuel line with braided stainless steel wire.  The other is a hillbilly style bolted connector.  It looks like a bolt on the outside and there are no threads.  Inside, almost hidden from view, is a hose clamp.  Steve made this little U tube.  It takes the place of a big looping section of hose.  Tomorrow I will fit everything up.

 


* Intake Mods 27.JPG (236.84 KB, 800x533 - viewed 148 times.)
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« Reply #672 on: January 28, 2012, 03:00:48 AM »

Nice work dude
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #673 on: January 29, 2012, 01:05:39 AM »

Oz, being sorta low on cash, I can spend a lot of time perfecting the little details.  A lot of us are in this pot of stew.

One hose was too long and Steve told me how to cut it.  First, I wrapped about 2 to 3 feet of electrical tape over the cut line real tight.  Then, I cut the hose through the middle of the taped section with a ceramic cutoff wheel.  I used a wheel on my angle grinder.  It stank like the starting line at a drag strip from the burning tape rubber.  This method made a clean cut.  Steve also told me to make sure to clean out the inside of the hose before I use it.  I did this.  Burnt rubber crumbs and wire fragments were inside.

The picture shows the completed hoses.  The blue caps are covering hose clamps.  The main line is a longer version of the short line and it has a fire sleeve.  The side view shows the fuel line going up and under the tank.  I will figure out a better way to route it some day.

This was easy to do and it is OK for a gravity fed fuel system.  I would use threaded and welded fittings if it was pressurized.   


* Intake Mods 28.JPG (219.1 KB, 800x533 - viewed 143 times.)

* Intake Mods 29.JPG (222.19 KB, 800x534 - viewed 147 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #674 on: February 03, 2012, 12:03:42 AM »

The next few posts are Triumphcentric.  They summarize what I have learned about this particular bike.  Folks with new Bonnevilles may benefit.  Most of the rest of you can hit the ignore button.

The inlet tract has a hole at each end.  One is a nice round opening and it is always open.  The other end is closed most of the time and when it is open it is cluttered up with all sorts of obstructions like valves, valve stems, and valve guide bosses.  It is obvious which end is the most restrictive - it is the end with the valves.  Experience has taught me this is the first location to consider for tuning.

There are various options for the Triumph.  Larger inlet valves are available from Black Diamond, Triumph performance, and others.  Inlet valves in 1 mm and 2 mm larger diameters were available years ago when I had the head work done.  Now larger sizes are available.  The 2 mm oversize worked great with the standard Triumph pistons.  There were no clearance problems.

The inlet valve seats need to be reworked to fit the larger intake valves.  When this was done I had all of the seats redone with a five angle valve job.  Flow around the inlet valve is enhanced by this.  Most performance shops can do this.  The head was ported when the valve work was done.  Triumph Performance did it and others offer similar services.

These bikes are sluggish in standard form.  This porting and valve work makes them come to life.  An excellent street engine was all standard Triumph 790 cc parts except for this head work, a black box equivalent to the Triumph Performance Stage II, Triumph off road mufflers, and the standard air box with the baffle plate and snorkel removed.  The engine with louder Norman Hyde mufflers and velocity stacks ran in the 120's at Bonneville.

     
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