Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 814113 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2670 on: January 09, 2017, 11:32:59 PM »
The subject of old tools was a topic on another build diary.  A monkey wrench was a tool I mentioned.  My father used one and I do not remember what it was.  Some looking on the i-net gave me an idea of what it was.  There are some tools I inherited from him and his monkey wrench is one of them.  It was made by Diamond Calk Horseshoe Company in Duluth, Minnesota.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2671 on: January 09, 2017, 11:42:32 PM »
My dad left me a left-handed version :-D
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
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2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2672 on: January 10, 2017, 11:36:22 PM »
It is hard to believe it now, but summer will be here eventually.

Offline edinlr

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2673 on: January 12, 2017, 09:28:05 AM »
When I visited the AIM motorcycle show in Orlando last fall I seem to remember either Shoie or Arai saying that they had some new models with taller eye ports.  You may want to visit their sites to see.  The way that the Moto GP riders tuck in, I am sure it is an issue for them too.
Honda CX650 turbo

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2674 on: January 12, 2017, 10:32:40 PM »
Those two fellows are my middle and youngest sons.  I will ask Shoei and Arai about tall port helmets.

The head flows increase along with valve lift up to around 0.400 inches lift.  The old cams I had provided 0.380 net lift.  These new cams give 0.400 net lift so they match the head flow better.  A narrow cam was recommended by the duration equation in the "Horsepower Chain" book.  Narrow cams are also recommended by the Dynomation program.  The ladies at WebCam sent me data for four lobe profiles with lifts around 0.400.  All were entered into Dynomation and the narrowest profile worked best.  It is a #208 grind and I am using them for both intake and exhaust.  The standard 1.1 inch diameter tappet buckets will work with these cams.  They require a 1.03 inch diameter bucket, minimum.

A lot of effort is going into reducing the rate of torque decay as the RPM's rise above peak torque rpm.  The added lift these cams give with a tad more duration promotes cylinder filling at high rpm.  The old #813 grind has 244 degrees duration at 0.050 lift and these new ones have 258.  Modeling more lift and duration than this seemed to be unproductive or give only marginal power increases.  These cams are as big as this motor can use.

The next step is to grind the welds off of the cam gears, push the gears off, push on the adjustable gears, tack weld the stationary parts of the gears to the cams, and send the lifters and cams out to be superpolished.

A lift vs duration table came with the cams so a digital profile can be generated.  This is what I will use in Dynomation for future virtual tuning.  It gives much more useful data than a ten point description based on duration at 0.006, duration at 0.050, and maximum lift.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2675 on: January 13, 2017, 12:19:37 PM »
The cams and buckets are sent to Kibblewhite this morning.  They will use the buckets and cams to verity the valve stems have the correct length so as to put the shims in the middle of the thickness selection range.  This is a needed task for direct acting overhead cam engines.  They are also looking at recommended tappet clearances as related to cam and lifter life, verifying that spring tension is matched for the task at hand and not excessive, and checking the valve train spring harmonics.  The things in the previous post will be done later.   

The cam tip rubs across the flat lifter.  The cam tip deforms and the lifter also deforms.  The contact patch size between the two is a function of the compressive load and the elasticity of the cam and lifter materials.  Higher loads and more elastic materials result in larger contact patches.  A problem occurs if the lifter is too hard.  This makes the cam do the deforming that is needed to obtain the contact patch.  This increased deformation, if in excess of the fatigue limits of the cam material, will cause micro cracking and eventual spalling of the cam lobe tip.

This is why Diamond Like Coating is not used on the lifters.  It makes them hard and it will force the deformation into the cam tip.  Possible durability problems result.  This is also why I am fussy about not using excessively strong springs and keeping the redline to 9,000 rpm so they are not needed.


Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2676 on: January 13, 2017, 12:38:10 PM »
Imagine that you are spreading a layer of plaster on a wall with a wide smooth edged putty knife.  The knife floats over a nice and thick layer of plaster while you work. Picture what happens if there are grooves and bumps in the putty knife.  The plaster flows through the grooves in the knife edge and the bumps on the edge touch the sheet rock underneath.

The as-ground lifters and cm lobes are rough.  They will be super polished to make them smoother.  Also, a break in will be done with light valve springs.  This work is intended to provide maximum oil film thickness between the cam lobe and cam bucket.

Research also shows that thicker oil can also help to maintain oil film thickness.  I was breaking in the cams using conventional 10-40.  High grade racing synthetic with an upper viscosity limit of 50 w will be used for cam break in.  This will promote better oil film thickness.   
 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2677 on: January 13, 2017, 12:46:41 PM »
The geometry of the interface between the moving cam lobe and the lifter is an important item to consider.  A cam lobe rubbing on a flat lifter is best for trapping an adequate oil film thickness.  A lobe rubbing on a radiused surface, convex to  the cam lobe tip, has more difficulty.  The double radii give more room for oil to escape.  The lifters have a small radius on their edges.  The #203 grind cam I was using was a bit large for the tappet buckets.  The cam lobe tip was too close to the edge and adequate oil could not be trapped before the wiping motion.  A nice feature of the new cams is they are a tad shorter and oil entrapment should not be an issue.  Experts gave this verdict to me. 

Offline salt27

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2678 on: January 13, 2017, 01:10:35 PM »
Good information Bo, thanks.

  Don

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2679 on: January 13, 2017, 01:19:08 PM »
Lobe shape is also an issue that influenced cam selection.  The programs and equations recommend around 238 to 240 degrees duration at .050.  A person needs to consider that during relatively few degree of rotation the cam needs to pop those valves up to and down from maximum lift.  This requires fairly flat flanks that accelerate and jerk the valve significantly.  Also, a tight radius of curvature is needed at the tip and it is hard to get adequate oil film thickness under the tip.  For these reasons, a special cam lobe profile was not developed.  Instead, a proven profile was selected that gave the narrowest duration of the profile selection.  This is done to promote valve train life by limiting tip radius of curvature to a reasonable level and the convex cam flanks give gentler valve acceleration and deceleration.  The peak opening, tip, and closing acceleration values are 0.000603, -.000223, and .000562. I do not know if these are good values.  Help is needed here.

These engines in full race tune customarily use 5mm or 6mm oversize valves.  This actually hurts performance according to Dynomation.  2mm larger intakes and 1mm larger exhausts are used.  Mach numbers are plenty low and performance is at its best.  These smaller valves weigh less and need weaker springs.  This helps out the valve train life.

The goal is to build a fast motor that lasts a long time and costs less to build.  Dyno day will prove if this works.    

Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2680 on: January 13, 2017, 05:25:40 PM »
“...acceleration values are 0.000603, -.000223, and .000562”

These are awfully small numerical values--what are the units they use?

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2681 on: January 13, 2017, 07:41:13 PM »
Parsecs per square erg, maybe? :?
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2682 on: January 13, 2017, 09:24:31 PM »
I do not know the units.  I was given numbers, only.

http://www.mdesign.ftn.uns.ac.rs/pdf/2010/machine_design_2010_for_web.pdf

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2683 on: January 13, 2017, 09:41:01 PM »
It takes awhile to download this rascal.  There are a bunch of good articles so the entire compendium is linked.  You will not drill an oil hole in the top of the conroe after reading the article on rod deign.

Interesting is the link between exhaust cam temperature and bucket wear.  Thermal barrier is recommended in the exhaust port and on the exhaust valve heads by Kibblewhite to reduce spring temperatures and the possibility of annealing.  It look like the barrier can help exhaust valve train life, too.

These posts are short 'cause I have a bad cold.  My job when night temps drop below 25 is to keep the fire burning all night so the pipes do not freeze.  Two nights ago I got out of bed and went to toss a log on the fire.  No logs.  So, it is a trip out to the woodshed and it is about a hundred feet away.  Getting my slippers and bathrobe means turning on the room light and waking up Rose.  So, logic told me to streak out and back barefoot and buff before I had a chance to freeze.  Douglas fir (Psuedotsuga menziesei)  is the only wood in the batch in the shed with the right properties.  It will light from being placed on hot coals.  I forgot about this detail and it took agonizing seconds to grab what I thought was D Fir.   Then I streaked back and tossed the wood on the coals.  It was oak.   The fire went out.  Then it got cold in the house.  The ladies lit the fire wham they got up.  What I got out of all of this is one bad head cold.     

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2684 on: January 15, 2017, 04:05:34 PM »
The most thorough plans sometimes do not work.  The stepped header pipe and collector for a Sacramento Mile Triumph does not fit this bike.  The entire lower section of the fairing needs to be rebuilt so the fairing will fit on the bike.  Or, the pipes need to be hacked up to the extent that it will be just like making a new set.  It took years to get that fairing shape right.  Ack!

These nice Italian Arrow pipes fit under the fairing.  They were on the race bike when it was in the Progressive Insurance bike show in Portland.  They are so well made and pretty that I could not keep them on the race bike.  They went onto the street bike.  It took weeks to get the EFI sorted so it works primo with these.  I sorta forgot what I did to make it work or what the settings were for the stock pipes.  It was a near miracle to get it figured out and it will be dang near impossible for me to redo, so these pipes will not go back on the race bike.

Right now I am pricing out the options of buying another set of Arrows or making a complete set of pipes from scratch.