Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 801712 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2445 on: July 04, 2016, 11:49:54 PM »
Option 4 is for next year after the Yamaha marine engine buckets are installed.  The big reason I wanted to eliminate the turkey options beforehand was health.  The dyno room is not ventilated as well as it should be and I run leaded gas.  Some more thinking says we can do the cam comparo and rough-in the jetting and timing with unleaded non-ethanol premium pump gas.  The leaded would be used for the final tuning, only.   

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2446 on: July 05, 2016, 07:43:15 AM »
Jeeze Louise!  All this PipeMax stuff is making my head hurt!  But you are familiar with that software and believe in it, so I'll be very interested to see if it can beat the old seat-of-the-pants tuning that I do.  Bo, I just go bigger, more duration, and more overlap and hope the motor runs better than last time.  I'm up to 300º duration with about 80º overlap (at .040" lift instead of .050"), but I haven't run this combination yet. Sure hope we both get to BMST to compare results. 
Tom
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2447 on: July 07, 2016, 09:49:37 PM »
Today was too mental!  All of this came after working all day.  Engine Pro was loaded on the old PC and I figured out why I got goofy results.  There are subroutines for calculating input variables.  The calculators do not update the input to the original program.  That has to be done manually.  The program works great once I figures that out.

The first option I tried was the all-purpose cams I used for years.  This is by far the best setup according to the program and none of the cam timing input variables are "out of range."  The exhaust duration, intake centerline, and lobe center angle are all within 4 degrees of recommended.  The intake lift is the limp area.  The cam gives .380 and Engine Pro recommends .440  That is a big difference.

The other two options with the exhaust cam used as an intake cam produce "out of range" input results.  Also, the predicted power is quite a bit less than with the all-purpose cams.  Interestingly, the full race cams produce much less predicted power than the all-purpose cams.

The plan is to install the all purpose cams and go for the record.  Next year I will work on installing the bumpy cams.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2448 on: July 08, 2016, 07:41:36 PM »
There are four valves per cylinder and they have waisted stems.  They are delicate and I am afraid I might bend one while doing a clearance check using clay.  This is the much safer light spring method.  A soft spring is used in place of the valve springs.  I can push the valve down with my finger like in the first foto.  A valve head to piston crown collision usually happens within 10 degrees of TDC during the overlap period.  The valve is pushed down while the crank is rotated through TDC.  The distance between the cam follower and the cam is the same as the clearance between the valve and the piston when the valve head is resting on the piston crown.  Luckily, I have plenty of clearance for both the intake and exhaust valves.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2449 on: July 09, 2016, 07:52:25 PM »
Combo 1 are the all purpose intake and exhaust cams with at recommended timing.  The intake ports flow curve flatten out above .400  This intake cam has .380 lift so it is not taking advantage of the port flow.  Dynamic compression is 10.4

Combo 2 has the all purpose exhaust cam with the high lift intake cam.  The intake opening of the high lift cam is at the same degree as the intake opening of the all purpose cam.  Dynamic compression is 9.5

Combo 3 is the all purpose exhaust cam with the high lift intake cam.  The intake closing of the high lift cam is the same as the intake closing of the all purpose cam.  Dynamic compression is 10.5

I read Horsepower Chain and they say intake closing is the most critical valve event.  It looks like Combo 3 does not change this and it preserves the dynamic comp ratio.  Any advice is appreciated.  What I think I see is Option 3 is best.  I have not given up on this cam idea, yet. 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2450 on: July 10, 2016, 10:38:46 AM »
These three charts are not accurate.  i could not figure out how to enter the seat and port geometric data.  The data I have is flow vs lift and piston demand at 28 inches.  Is there a way in engine pro or pipe max to  plot these two on the y axis versus crank angle on the x axis? 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2451 on: July 11, 2016, 09:36:38 PM »
This engine has the cam and lifter style shown a few posts previous.  Is there a formula for maximum inches lift vs degrees duration at .050 with reliable operation?

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2452 on: July 13, 2016, 07:44:22 PM »
I was monkeying around with my cam timing experiment and I banged the valves into the tops of the pistons.  Then I corrected the cam timing so this will not happen.  Are the valves bent?, I asked myself.  It is time for a compression check.  I put on the gage, hit the starter button, and nothing happened.  Hours later I found and corrected an intermittent break in the wire from the ignition to the kill switch.  Then I found and corrected another break in the wire to the knock light.  Finally, with all of that fixed, I smashed down on that starter button again.  There was this "fried electrical part" smell.  I rebuilt the starter this winter and screwed it up, I guess.  I took the starter motor down to the local rebuild shop this morning.  The lithium battery might be toasted, too.  My father called me a "one man wave of destruction" when I was a kid.  The name sorta fits. 

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2453 on: July 14, 2016, 05:52:21 AM »
This engine has the cam and lifter style shown a few posts previous.  Is there a formula for maximum inches lift vs degrees duration at .050 with reliable operation?

If you have a displacement plot you can find the .050 value off of that data.    If you do not have a displacement plot (graph), it's time to make one for both int & ex.

 :cheers:
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Offline fordboy628

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2454 on: July 14, 2016, 05:55:35 AM »
I was monkeying around with my cam timing experiment and I banged the valves into the tops of the pistons.  Then I corrected the cam timing so this will not happen.  Are the valves bent?, I asked myself.  It is time for a compression check.  I put on the gage, hit the starter button, and nothing happened.  Hours later I found and corrected an intermittent break in the wire from the ignition to the kill switch.  Then I found and corrected another break in the wire to the knock light.  Finally, with all of that fixed, I smashed down on that starter button again.  There was this "fried electrical part" smell.  I rebuilt the starter this winter and screwed it up, I guess.  I took the starter motor down to the local rebuild shop this morning.  The lithium battery might be toasted, too.  My father called me a "one man wave of destruction" when I was a kid.  The name sorta fits. 

YIPES!!!

Sorry for your troubles.    When having a day like that, I advise taking a break from the project, just to preserve your sanity, and possibly your wallet.

 :cheers:
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2455 on: July 14, 2016, 10:02:04 AM »
WW, I asked a factory rep once how they found shorts and he said, "We just follow the smoke!"  :-o Unless you are a factory rep now I would advise against that method! FB is right - time for a break!  :cheers:
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2456 on: July 14, 2016, 11:22:31 PM »
Rose and I spent the evening having a good time down at one of our locals and Bim Bam Bop, a Korean restaurant.  That was my break.  Now I am at it again.  The shop finished the starter motor.  They said there was an assembly error and battery current was going straight to ground.  Electrical stuff is to me like the white whale to Ahab, the iceberg to the Titanic, or interns to Clinton.  Nothing but trouble.

The cam lobes have a profile where the leading face has a belly in it and the trailing face is flat.  Kibblewhite digitized them.  I asked them for the data and then I will draw up the valve displacement vs crank angle graph.

Today at work I finished a big project, signed and stamped my plan sheets, sent in the specifications, report, and cost estimate.  Then I sent the boss an e-mail saying I would be gone tomorrow to celebrate.  He wasn't there to say no so I will spend about 14 hours on the bike.  Progress will be made.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2457 on: July 15, 2016, 11:59:06 PM »
The starter came back from the shop and it works great.  Cold cranking compression on the virgin engine was over 80 psi on the first burst and it raised right up to 240 psi really quick.  Both cylinders are identical.  I did not bend any valves.

The inlet manifolds were hogged out to match the new carbs.  The photo does not show it, but the intake valves are visible at the end of the ports.  This motor should work good.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2458 on: July 16, 2016, 09:57:56 AM »
An attempt was made to measure the valve displacement from the high lift exhaust cam.  It does not meet the cam card specs in some areas.  Right off I noticed it provides only .020 more lift than the all purpose intake cam.  The cam card says the duration is 12 degrees more with the high lift cam.  That seems reasonable and to opens the valves 9 degrees sooner and shuts them about 3 degrees later.  The flanks on the all purpose cam are nearly flat.  The high lift cam has a shape like the front end of a trout from top view.  It holds the valves open longer at the higher lifts.
 
Kibblewhite sent up some new tappet buckets to go with the new exhaust cam.  It is in the engine now with the EC of the new cam real close to the EC if the old one.  My guess is the old intake cam will not give the needed lift and duration and the new one might.  This is the setup I will use this year.

Next year is the year of the cams and that is where most of my effort will go.  Measured profiles and more fancy computer work will be used.  Right now I am too tired to do anything intellectual.   

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2459 on: July 19, 2016, 07:07:30 PM »
Talk about leaving no stone unturned?.
Bo, your attention to detail always blows me away.
No wonder you're tired. Have a rest brother. :cheers: