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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 799924 times)

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Offline Polyhead

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2280 on: January 18, 2016, 08:26:11 PM »
eh, I don't even have a shop at home right now, i'm barrowing space from friends at the moment.  So... inviting people over to you buddies place, while he's off in cali trying to get his stuff sorted.... officially not cool.  The car is still street legal though, so it'll be out there in the parking lot.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2281 on: January 21, 2016, 09:54:57 PM »
Portland, Bend, and other trendy places are expensive to live in.  A modest house with a workshop is affordable in the woodsier parts of the state.  Lots of folks call their shops "pole barns" and this leads to confusion if you do not know this and are shopping around for a place to live.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2282 on: January 21, 2016, 10:06:11 PM »
The conversion from Windows 7 to Windows 8 seemed like big step backwards so I bought an Apple computer.  It is a lot easier to work with and I use it a lot.  Scanning, printing, and all sorts of other stuff was done on my PC 'cause it still works, sort of.  Now I will try to post something I scanned.  It might take a few posts for me to get it figured out. Be patient.  My natural abilities are to be a handsome, suave, and debonaire party animal.  This nerdy stuff is very difficult and I have no natural talent for it. 

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2283 on: January 22, 2016, 04:33:18 AM »
Biggest club in the world brother. :-D :-D :-D

Good luck. :cheers:

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2284 on: January 22, 2016, 10:30:19 AM »
Portland, Bend, and other trendy places are expensive to live in.  A modest house with a workshop is affordable in the woodsier parts of the state.  Lots of folks call their shops "pole barns" and this leads to confusion if you do not know this and are shopping around for a place to live.

True, but my nice decently paying job is in St. Johns, and I like to be able to bicycle commute. So, I rent shop space here and there.  It still works out being cheaper than a house with shop space, in the short term anyway.  Owning out here is a fools game, and no bank on the planet would be dumb enough to loan me money anyway.

On windows.... yeah... screw all that noise.  Apple and microsoft both have a crap product.  Been a linux user since 2000.  It's still superior. :D  Actually more superior right now than it ever has been.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2285 on: January 22, 2016, 11:09:57 PM »
Here are the rod journal to shell clearances.  White coded shells, they give the loosest fit, are recommended for racing.  It seems I installed red coded shells based on measurement.  The damaged shell was on the left journal which had the tightest clearances.  I always install white shells and my records say this.  Maybe the shells I installed were mislabeled.

The machinist showed me a special micrometer for measuring shells.  It has a flat and a round anvil.  This is what I need so I can check the rascals to make sure they are the correct size before I install them.

 

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2286 on: January 23, 2016, 12:27:47 AM »
Here are the rod journal to shell clearances.  White coded shells, they give the loosest fit, are recommended for racing.  It seems I installed red coded shells based on measurement.  The damaged shell was on the left journal which had the tightest clearances.  I always install white shells and my records say this.  Maybe the shells I installed were mislabeled.

The machinist showed me a special micrometer for measuring shells.  It has a flat and a round anvil.  This is what I need so I can check the rascals to make sure they are the correct size before I install them.

 

You don't need a special mic to measure inside of a radius.  You can get balls to attach to your existing od mic so that it can measure on a radius.  You then only need subtract the diameter of the ball.  In a pinch, a ball bearing and some tape gets the job done.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2287 on: January 23, 2016, 06:03:40 AM »
Here are the rod journal to shell clearances.  White coded shells, they give the loosest fit, are recommended for racing.  It seems I installed red coded shells based on measurement.  The damaged shell was on the left journal which had the tightest clearances.  I always install white shells and my records say this.  Maybe the shells I installed were mislabeled.

The machinist showed me a special micrometer for measuring shells.  It has a flat and a round anvil.  This is what I need so I can check the rascals to make sure they are the correct size before I install them.
 

You don't need a special mic to measure inside of a radius.  You can get balls to attach to your existing od mic so that it can measure on a radius.  You then only need subtract the diameter of the ball.  In a pinch, a ball bearing and some tape gets the job done.


You need to be very careful when measuring the thickness of "tri-metal" bearing surfaces.   The plated, overlay, lead/indium layer on Vandervell/Mahle Motorsport bearings is easily dented and can give an erroneous reading.   The bearing manufacturer calls this: embedability.   It is to trap foreign particles in this layer.   On the other hand, bearings made from Clevite 77 material have a much higher surface hardness.

The best method I have used to measure bearing thickness is to use a special micrometer with a flat anvil and a ground rod.   In a pinch, a regular micrometer and a hardened and ground dowel pin can be substituted.    I tend to use a .250" or a .500" dowel pin to make the subtraction math simple.   Industrial supply houses occasionally list them as "die pins", for stamping dies.  They are typically available in std size, +.0005" o/s, and +.001" o/s and various undersizes, just to keep it complicated.   I have a buddy who does centerless grinding of gages, for tool and die machinists.   I get any size I need from him.

 :cheers:
Fordboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2288 on: January 23, 2016, 06:15:41 AM »
Here is a tech bulletin from Clevite that explains why bearings are eccentrically shaped, and how and where to measure them.

http://www.stealth316.com/misc/clevite-eng-bearing-fund-p4.pdf

 :cheers:
Fordboy
I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2289 on: January 23, 2016, 07:29:52 AM »
Thanks Mark.
I saved the PDF. :cheers:

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2290 on: January 23, 2016, 07:19:50 PM »
Here are the rod journal to shell clearances.  White coded shells, they give the loosest fit, are recommended for racing.  It seems I installed red coded shells based on measurement.  The damaged shell was on the left journal which had the tightest clearances.  I always install white shells and my records say this.  Maybe the shells I installed were mislabeled.

The machinist showed me a special micrometer for measuring shells.  It has a flat and a round anvil.  This is what I need so I can check the rascals to make sure they are the correct size before I install them.
 

You don't need a special mic to measure inside of a radius.  You can get balls to attach to your existing od mic so that it can measure on a radius.  You then only need subtract the diameter of the ball.  In a pinch, a ball bearing and some tape gets the job done.


You need to be very careful when measuring the thickness of "tri-metal" bearing surfaces.   The plated, overlay, lead/indium layer on Vandervell/Mahle Motorsport bearings is easily dented and can give an erroneous reading.   The bearing manufacturer calls this: embedability.   It is to trap foreign particles in this layer.   On the other hand, bearings made from Clevite 77 material have a much higher surface hardness.

The best method I have used to measure bearing thickness is to use a special micrometer with a flat anvil and a ground rod.   In a pinch, a regular micrometer and a hardened and ground dowel pin can be substituted.    I tend to use a .250" or a .500" dowel pin to make the subtraction math simple.   Industrial supply houses occasionally list them as "die pins", for stamping dies.  They are typically available in std size, +.0005" o/s, and +.001" o/s and various undersizes, just to keep it complicated.   I have a buddy who does centerless grinding of gages, for tool and die machinists.   I get any size I need from him.

 :cheers:
Fordboy

I would think so long as you used the clutch on the mic you would be good.  We do babbit friction bearing repair at the shop, and while you do have to be careful it's not THAT fragile.  Then again.. when you're doing it every day it always seems more simple.  The issue I have with using roll pins is that they are a BASTARD to hold in place while your trying to find the high spot and get a good reading.  That said spreading the force over a wider area is always superior.

At work I have a calculator in my pocket at ALL times.  I've found one I really, really like for doing machine work for both their durability and just the right selection of functions, multiple memory positions (so you can say, store the pin diameter in a memory slot and recall it to the tenth with a button push, makes it hard to get it wrong) and a scroll back function so you can scroll back and double check the numbers you punched in as a second check of your math.   TI-30XIIS.  They are only like $25, and I get a year out of them between stupid incidents.  Generally they get smashed, droped in a bucket of oil, set fire too or some otherwise mangled or maimed before the batteries go dead. :P  The plastic holds up well to hot chips, oil and coolant though so that's a big plus!
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Online jdincau

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2291 on: January 23, 2016, 08:59:05 PM »
Look for a tube micrometer on ebay, you can get one as cheap as $30
Unless it's crazy, ambitious and delusional, it's not worth our time!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2292 on: January 24, 2016, 12:17:05 AM »
The shell inner faces are soft and we did enough measuring to damage them.  The machinist said something about Smokey Yunick figuring out the variable inside diameter trick.  I did not fully understand the story, being a bike guy.   

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2293 on: January 24, 2016, 12:58:45 AM »
This digital Mitutoyo height gage reads to tenths.  It was fished out of the recycle bin by my brother along with the box of micrometers.  It is zeroed against the top of the ball bearing.  The tip is raised, a shell put on the ball, the tip lowered, and the shell thickness is displayed.  Totally hillbilly and it works just fine.   

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2294 on: January 24, 2016, 01:20:41 AM »
This digital Mitutoyo height gage reads to tenths.  It was fished out of the recycle bin by my brother along with the box of micrometers.  It is zeroed against the top of the ball bearing.  The tip is raised, a shell put on the ball, the tip lowered, and the shell thickness is displayed.  Totally hillbilly and it works just fine.   

Using just the foot to measure height actually isn't very reliable.  What is normally done if you need a measurement tighter than +/-.010 is that you put a finger type indicator in place of the hard tip foot.  Some finger indicator kits even come with the arm to put in place of the hard tip foot of the height gauge.  Anyway the procedure from there is to crank down the height gauge until you hit a position that's good for you on your test indicator then note the number on the height gauge.  touch the test indicator to the next point and be sure to roll the test indicator up to the same number.  The difference between the numbers on the height gauge is your measurement.  That's the only way you can really make a height gauge accurate.  They are just too easily influenced by measurement force otherwise.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL