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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1002900 times)

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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2145 on: September 30, 2015, 11:18:00 AM »
Your diggin clams............but the pic shows sliced lobster-tail :-D

Quite a bit of pinching throughout the intake stream :-)
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2146 on: September 30, 2015, 08:09:17 PM »
Neil, next time I will pull the plug out.  That is a good idea.

In his book about porting, Vizard recommends a port area equal to 85% of the valve head area as a good starting point.  The intake valve heads are 33mm dia.  Their combined areas are 2.65 square inches.  0.85 x 2.65 = 2.25 square inches.

The mean flow velocity through a well ported standard head is 300 to 360 feet per second according to Vizard.  He says the peak power rpm = (mean port velocity x port area x 360) / cubic inch cylinder displacement

Using 300 feet per second, a 30.3 cubic inch displacement, and a 2.25 square inch port area:

rpm = 300 x 2.25 x 360 / 30.3 = 8,020 rpm

Using 360 feet per second:  360 x 2.25 x 360 / 30.3 = 9,629 rpm

A port enlarged to 2.25 square inches should do what I need, rpm wise.  The only area that will not meet that criteria are the valve seat rings.  They have an area of only 1.99 square inches.

I do no know if the valves and seat rings are big enough.  This is where I need some help. 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2147 on: October 03, 2015, 11:52:39 PM »
Lots of figuring tells me I need the lift vs degree information for my new cams before I can determine if the valves are the right size.  The came are being ground so I do not have that info.

The Triumph Performance Stage 4 advance curve is developed for these cams.  The igniter boxes I had were programmed for an 8,400 rpm redline with the Stage 3 curve, Stage 3 plus 2 degrees, and Stage 3 plus 4 degrees.  These are reprogrammed for a 9,000 rpm redline with the Stage 4 curve, Stage 4 plus 2 degrees, and Stage 4 plus 4 degrees.  Two new boxes are programmed for the 9,000 rpm redline with the Stage 4 curve minus 2 degrees and Stage 4 minus 4 degrees.

In the past I looked at the dyno data from three advance curves to select the optimum one.  This is Mickey Mouse.  The data from five advance curves should give me a more accurate idea of the best one.

 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2148 on: October 04, 2015, 10:59:25 PM »
The original equipment carbs and some aftermarket ones have throttle position sensors (TPS).  There are partial throttle ignition advance curves and the TPS tell the module when to use those curves.  There is a full throttle advance curve and the TPS tells the module when it is appropriate.  The full throttle curve is the default one if the TPS is disconnected.  The TPS is one more thing to break or see goofus and provide the wrong input data so I run with it disconnected.  This default curve business is good to know.  It means there is no problem using carbs with no TPS for land speed racing.

We had the Triumph club breakfast yesterday.  Two fellows know about the Progressive Insurance motorcycle show and they say Cascade Moto Classics will do the entire Triumph display.  Cascade is our local dealer and they help me in many ways.  Only three Triumphs will be allowed to go on display.  One will be the fancy Triumph streamliner.  The other ones will be my bike, Bonnie, and the third is a new Rocket III.

This is a big deal and I am worried about how to present the bike.  There are lots of custom bikes there with all sorts of polished alloy, glitter, nice paint, etc.  There is no way the bike would be outstanding if I tried to set it up like that.  It is an active race bike and it will be presented as one.  It will have the sand racing tires and the salt flats streamlining.  It also will have an Arrow 2 into 1 pipe.  Normally I do not use one.  Cascade sells those and it will be good advertising for them.  Also, it is on the bike and I am too lazy to take it off.  Otherwise, it will be cleaned up and look like when it was raced it in Wales in 2015 and at B'ville in 2014.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2149 on: October 05, 2015, 09:52:45 PM »
The Arrow headers on the race bike.  The nearside header crosses to the offside just in front of the cylinder head.  It is blue from getting hot.  There is not much cooling air in that sheltered location.  Also, it blocks cooling air from getting to critical locations on the engine.  Unfortunately, I did not look at these thermal issues before I bought the pipes.  They are great for the street and give the best power curve of any exhaust I have tried so they get use on the road bike.   

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2150 on: October 06, 2015, 05:01:29 AM »
Bo, it is what it is, a race bike!.

I think you'll surprise a lot of people.

Have a great show. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2151 on: October 07, 2015, 12:01:55 AM »
Hi Mike.  It is time to pay back the folks that help me with some good publicity and exposure.  Last night the dents got banged out of the fairing and it got wiped down with a rag soaked in machine gun lube after work today.  The bike will look good after a couple of weeks of preening and pampering.  There are no rods, pistons, cams, etc in that engine. 

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2152 on: October 08, 2015, 10:11:51 PM »
Cool. I like that you want to give back to the sponsors.

Talking about bikes with empty motors. :-D

In 93 this rich dude here in SA (daddy's money) saw an ad in an American Magazine.
There was this show winning bike for sale. It was painted to look like a WW11 fighter plane.
Rich dude calls, sends money and a while later the crate arrives on a plane.

It arrived at the shop where I was building my first custom gas tank and fenders for a client.

Long story short, rich dude wanted to take a 120 mile ride to the casino and it wouldn't run.
Expert after expert arrived and no luck so the old dude who owned the establishment suggested
they pull one of the heads and check.

Off came the tank and the "experts" got to work. No Pistons, no rods. Rich guy was furious so he calls
the seller. The reply was that the ad said "Show winning Harley Davidson custom". Nowhere did it say running!!!!.

I laughed hard and still do every time I think of that bike. It took a new motor and gearbox to get the thing going.
I think the rich guy rode two or three times before he sold it.

Those were the days. The local "builders" didn't use Loctite either. :-D :-D :-D

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2153 on: October 08, 2015, 11:13:21 PM »
There are only a few people making Triumph goodies with enough quality for land speed racing.  Some are in UK and AUS.  So far, I've been lucky.  They all give me good prompt service at a fair price.

My youngest daughter, Gretchen, went to England, France, and Wales with me when we raced.  She hung back and let me do the talking, etc. on arrival in the UK.  Then we went to Europe and she did a bit more, like ordering food and buying drinks.  She had more confidence in Wales.  She was off on her own during the last few days in London traveling on the underground and busses.  She went to Canada on her own for a week before school started using money she saved up.  Now she is taking a break between semesters and spending a year in Australia.  She has some sort of work visa and a job waiting for her when she gets there.  She turned from a kid to a confident young lady in six months.  Her flight from America lands in Tasmania.

She went with me to B'ville for many years, too, where she watched me deal with all sorts of weird issues, problems, successes, and failures with tools at hand and stuff I scrounged.  Maybe seeing someone do this is what she needed to get the inspiration and confidence to go out on her own.   

 

Offline WhizzbangK.C.

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2154 on: October 09, 2015, 08:49:31 AM »
It's a wonderful thing to watch young folks grow into themselves and step out into the world to grab onto their part. I enjoyed watching Gretchen grow from a shy child into a wonderful young lady over the course of several seasons on the salt. It was always a joy to meet her again and see the person she was growing into. I can only imagine what she will become! I know that you're very proud of her, and you and Rose should take personal pride in the job you've done raising her to this point.

Tell her I said "go get 'em!" I'm proud to know her.
Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' that I wasn't previously aware of.  Douglas Adams

Offline bones

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2155 on: October 09, 2015, 04:22:34 PM »
Hey Wobbly
 That's a funny way to get to Australia but Tassy is  very pretty.
When will she get to Sydney?
If I am around she is welcome to stay at my place- give me a call when time gets closer.
I'm 10 miles from the city and the train is walking distance from the house.

Bones

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2156 on: October 12, 2015, 11:00:11 PM »
The front of the bike is all put together, shined up, and ready for the bike show.  It is time to put on the tail.  Fap!  The exhaust cutout on one side does not match the header megaphone and no cutout is needed on the other side.  There is no muffler.

First impulse is to leave the tail alone and to put on the old pipes.  The main fairing bracket crosses in front of the frame and this means taking off the front wheel, front fender, and forks to remove the fairing so the pipes can be changed.  It is not worth the trouble.

Lesson One.  Design the fairing and brackets so the fairing or sections of it can be easily removed for service work.

Skirted tails can cause aerodynamic unstability if not properly designed.  I was worried about this and the tail was originally run with short skirts.  It was stable so I tacked on extra panels to make full skirts to use the next year.  It is relatively easy to remove these skirts and make new ones to accommodate the Arrow pipes.  This is something I did that was handy although I did not consider it at the time.

Lesson Two.  Make areas of the fairing and tail removable and easily replaced in locations where modifications are expected.

We live and learn.  At age 100 I will have this game figured out.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2157 on: October 13, 2015, 01:51:50 AM »
It's called R&D Bo!. :-D :-D :-D

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2158 on: October 13, 2015, 10:58:07 AM »
Was that a prized sponsor you just removed :lol:
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline MattGuzzetta

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #2159 on: October 13, 2015, 12:06:43 PM »
The best explanation of R&D I heard was a fabricator who said "R&D? You mean Re-Do!  :-D