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Forum's going down again sometime!
The first and second "rebuilds" ran into some bigtime problems.
Regrouping again....
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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 773631 times)
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Stan Back
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« Reply #2130 on: September 21, 2015, 06:44:44 PM »

No (I guess) -- but for what his is.
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Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters California's most-exclusive roadster club.
Celebrating 65th anniversary of racing on the salt.
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« Reply #2131 on: September 21, 2015, 10:12:55 PM »

The Triumph is a four stroke most of the time.
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RidgeRunner
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« Reply #2132 on: September 22, 2015, 06:10:18 AM »

It's my understanding that the plug hole has to be near vertically centered over the piston for the thingy to be used

                Ed
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« Reply #2133 on: September 23, 2015, 12:13:54 AM »

Ed, that is correct.  In the old days we checked the displacement by filling the cylinder with automatic transmission fluid from a graduated cylinder.  It worked pretty well on four strokes.  Two stroke displacement can be measured by taking off the expansion chamber, moving the piston up so a few millimeters is exposed in the exhaust port, and using the depth gage probe from a dial caliper.  The probe touches the back cylinder wall and the body of the caliper touches the front of the piston.  That measures the bore.  The stroke can be measured by the same probe through the spark plug hole.  That method works if the spark plug hole is in the middle of the cyl head and there is no intake port opposite the exhaust port.

Tonight the head and jugs were pulled off of the Triumph.  The experiment with nitropropane and toluene has officially ended.   
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tauruck
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« Reply #2134 on: September 23, 2015, 08:54:41 AM »

Bo, there must be a University over in the States that will make you an Honorary Graduate in the not too distant future!. wink

You research and work that Trump like no one I've ever seen or heard of.
I sit here reading but there's a disconnect between the eyes and the brain.

You amaze and inspire me.

Imagine if you were 5'7" and weighed 150???.

You'd need Rose to build you a trophy room. Seriously. cheers cheers cheers

I'm calling you "TEACH" from now on.
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Speed Limit 1000
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« Reply #2135 on: September 23, 2015, 02:34:09 PM »

CH3NO2. Construction of an all-carbon quaternary stereocenter by the peptide-catalyzed asymmetric Michael addition of nitromethane to β-disubstituted α,β-unsaturated aldehydes.
Much better for race motors cheers
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John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20
wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2136 on: September 23, 2015, 07:34:11 PM »

Mike, if I was smart I would be going a lot faster.  The speed increases at this stage of development take a lot of figuring and work.  Money, too.  The goal is to make as good a naturally aspirated motor as I can and not toss out a lot of parts when the blower goes on the bike in a couple of years.

CH3NO2 added by an assymetric Michael?  Looks like it might be the hot setup.

The next step is to measure the port areas and piston dimensions.   
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2137 on: September 26, 2015, 12:07:28 AM »

This morning I was going to leave to go to the Alvord. There is a 5000 foot pass I need to cross just east of here and it was raining hard.  Basically, leaving meant getting wet and cold and riding for a long day.  Maybe it would work when I was younger.  It might put me in the hospital with pneumonia now.  I worked on the bike and did chores instead of leaving.

There is a flow constriction in the intake and it is valves too small or inadequate port size, or both.  A casting will be made of the inlet port and manifold so they can be measured.  Oils or other hydrocarbons can soak into the casting rubber and inhibit curing.  I clean the head as best as I can with hot soapy water and then I put it in the family dishwasher.  Rose comes home and gets ready to load the washer with dirty dishes.  I sneak in and swiftly remove the cylinder head while her back is turned.  A near death experience is narrowly averted.

Mold release agent is sprayed onto the part, allowed to sit for half an hour, it is reapplied, and allowed to sit another half hour.  Now the rubber can be poured in.  Always use the proper release agent.  Grease, silicone spray, Pam, and other stuff creates a lot of trouble.  I know this from experience.

I use RTV sealant with Shore 30 hardness for making rubber parts.  It is too stiff for this application and it takes 24 hours to cure.  This is too long.  FiberLay in Clackamas sells this SharkThane polyurethane with much softer Shore 20 hardness and a 5-minute cure time.  That is what I use.


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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2138 on: September 26, 2015, 12:12:39 AM »

The manifold is filled and the port, too.  There is some tugging and pulling involved with removing the castings.  Both parts cure overnight while bathed in the warmth of a chicken incubator light.  This extra curing helps to make them strong.


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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2139 on: September 26, 2015, 10:53:55 AM »

One of our forum members e-mailed me about the NAE problems and it saved me making the trip out there for nothing.  I would be leaving this morning.  The weather cleared up.  That must be hard for Ed and his team.  Hopefully the bad luck is behind them and they can be successful in the future.

The plugs cured overnight.  The valves kept the rubber in the port when it was poured.  The area around the valves is really critical for flow and it is good to have a casting showing the valve head in the port.  Removing the rascals can be tricky.  My method is to gently pry the rubber away from the port wall and to drop some lubricant down alongside the rubber in the crack.  Then, I push the rubber in different directions to get the lube everywhere between the rubber and the port wall.

Removal lube choice is critical.  Some lubes are absorbed by the rubber and they make the casting swell.  My lube is spittle.  It does a great job and does not degrade or influence the casting shape and size.

     


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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2140 on: September 26, 2015, 10:59:58 AM »

The casting is gently pushed out.  Rubber with Shore hardness 20 is critical for this port.  Any rubber with higher Shore number would not push out.  The castings show things it are hard to see otherwise.  The next step is to measure their cross-sectional area.


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manta22
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« Reply #2141 on: September 26, 2015, 11:48:12 AM »

WW;

I was thinking about how to remove the cured plug and it occurred to me that pushing it out would cause the plug to expand against the walls and make it difficult to pull out. How about casting in an old valve and using the stem to pull the plug out? Pulling should cause the plug to contract as it stretches and that should make removal easier.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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« Reply #2142 on: September 26, 2015, 04:01:47 PM »

Nice smiley Your teaching me something .............I'm just not sure what it is grin

It looks as if the valve-throat at the seat is smaller than the port diameter. A larger valve with a steep seat-angle would allow you to 'bore' the throats. If you are using slightly larger pistons, the valve shrouding will open up.

Did you remove the valve-guides?   
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2143 on: September 30, 2015, 12:22:05 AM »

Dennis, the valve guides are in.  They do not project into the port.

Ed was packing to return from the Alvord when I was ready to leave.  Going to see him run would not happen.  I had Monday set aside as a vacation day from work.  The bike was packed, so I tied on the cooler, crab boiling pot, and crab trap, and left town.  Where I went was Fort Stevens and it is the farthest north part of Oregon.  An area I had not crabbed and I had I to learn about new methods and crabbing spots.  It worked out well.  Caught two big juicy Dungeness crabs on Sunday and another one on Monday.  The sun was out most of the time, the lunar eclipse was visible, and it did not rain.  It does not get better than this.

The casting is cut apart and the areas are measured.  All areas are for one port in square inches.

1.7 upstream end intake manifold,
1.7 at 0.7 inches toward intake valve in intake manifold,
1.9 at 1.4 inches toward intake valve in intake manifold,
2.4 at 2.2 inches toward intake valve at downstream end intake manifold and upstream edge cylinder head,
2.2 at 3.3 inches toward intake valve just upstream from bifurcation in cylinder head,
1.9 at 4.3 inches toward intake valve just upstream from guide recess in cylinder head,
1.7 at 5.0 inches toward intake valve just downstream from guide recess with valve stem cross-sectional area removed,
2.3 at 5.8 inches toward intake valve at face of closed intake valve with valve stem cross-sectional area removed (at leech mouth)

Cross-sectional area of steel valve seat rings with cross-sectional area of valves removed = 2.4

Valve stem thickness intake and exhaust = 0.19 inches


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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #2144 on: September 30, 2015, 12:41:41 AM »

I made a mistake.  The openings in the valve seat rings are 1.125 inches wide so the cross-sectional area with valve stem areas removed is 1.93 square inches for both rings.
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