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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 864310 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1860 on: September 25, 2014, 01:01:42 AM »
The oil looks like I cooked it.  This is something I saw a lot when I raced Hondas.  The original equipment chrome side covers and an accessory chrome valve cover are not helping with heat dissipation.  There are finned aluminum ones on the aftermarket.  They will dissipate heat much better.  In addition, there are a few kits that relocate the radiator so it is not in front the engine blocking the air flow.  Another thing I should try.

Offline charlie101

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1861 on: September 25, 2014, 01:22:48 AM »
Quite cheap microscopic device or lens for the cell phone would allow you to photograph closeup wear on bearings, linings and rings. That may tell if you have a problem with oil wash or oil film breakdown elsewhere. An oil analys would be the ticket to tell how the oil stood the test. The metal content in the oil does consort with the mechanical wear and is comparable between tests whatever oil used. Then there is other units in the test that tell if the oil has deteriorated. But what would tell if the zink additive you put in is not the culprit for oxidizing that oil? Ahh...I have a strong aversion against extra additives...sorry.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 01:32:52 AM by charlie101 »

Offline generatorshovel

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    • http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1862 on: September 25, 2014, 07:27:40 AM »
Penrite oil have come onboard as a sponsor of the DLRA Speedwek Bo, and it's good stuff, Iv'e been using their HPR 50 in the old HD for years, and use HPR 5w40 in the 250, it puts up with methanol pollution rather well, after drowning the 250 with methanol for a mile at full throttle, I drained 300ml more oil out, than I put in !, I saved it in a 2 litre coke plastic bottle and watched it for signs of settling & separation, there is not any,after 3 months ?
No trouble with the wet clutch either, a lot of oils glue the plates together if the bike is let stand for a few days.
Tiny (in OZ)
I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE

Offline joea

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1863 on: September 25, 2014, 01:56:02 PM »
Wobbly, how do your clutch plates look?   its quite easy to turn the oil dark from
the clutch plates, with all your dyno pulls and such and synthetic oil that is known
for still allowing clutch slip (regardless of the claims contrary) it would be interesting
to know how they measure now compared to new

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1864 on: September 25, 2014, 08:22:45 PM »
A break in oil will be used with the new pistons and cams.  Then, I will drain oil and put in the Penrite with no additives.    Also, the clutch will be checked.

This was a year with wet sticky salt and it got all over the oil radiator.  I tried to wash it out with limited success.  Decades ago I rode a Yamaha 80 or Honda 50 or maybe a Honda Dream that had a horizontal flat fin on the back of the front fender.  It kept the engine clean from junk thrown up by the front tire.  I took it off 'cause it looked dorky.  The engine got a lot dirtier much more quickly when it was gone.  A little fin will help keep the salt off of the engine so I will make one.

Some internet searching shows a few racing Triumphs like mine on the salt.  None have the standard oil radiator.  This is another thing I can investigate.

Thanks for the advice on this. 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1865 on: September 27, 2014, 11:43:56 AM »
Avoiding additives is a good idea.  This Penrite has a lot of phosphorous so there is no need to add zinc or it to the mix.  The The dyno runs were done in Beaverton which is near sea level.  The engine makes more power there than at Bonneville.  There are no signs of the clutch slipping on the dyno readouts.  It was a problem in the past and the clutch is beefed up with kevlar plated and herky springs.  Thanks for the advice on this.  I looked into the issues.

The Hondas I raced years ago ran hot by design.  They also routed the oil up to the top end in holes alongside the long studs that clamped the top end onto the block.  This passage went right by the cylinders and the oil got very hot when it did this.  It was and is a dumb idea.  We found no good cure for it other than changing the oil often and using the best quality lube we could find.  The ultimate cure was to sell the Hondas and buy a BSA.  Problem cured.

These Triumphs are air/oil cooled engines and the oil is deliberately pumped through passages in the cylinders to cool them.  This engine is generating a lot more power and consequently, heat.  The oil is getting hot as a result.  BSA is out of the bike business so I need to work on the issue. 

An e-mail conversation with South Bay Triumph indicates that the standard Triumph oil cooler is an efficient design.  No oil cooler will work with salt on it so making some shields to keep it off will be a task for this winter.  Also, I will look at the environment around the cooler and the front of the engine to make sure there is a lot of cool air going in.  Maybe mounting the cooler in front of the frame rails instead of behind where it is now?   Hopefully this will solve the problem.

Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1866 on: September 27, 2014, 12:00:17 PM »
Bo:

Could you fabricate something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Gasket-1350-Cool-Can-Brushed-Aluminum-/271615585800?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f3d8cee08&vxp=mtr and cool your oil with ice water rather than air?

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1867 on: September 27, 2014, 03:37:32 PM »
The front fender hits the cooler when it is mounted in the front of the frame tubes.

Thanks fr the idea.  An advantage of moving the radiator it to another location is that it will not block air flow to the front of the engine.  It does this in its OEM location.  Right now I am looking at relocating it and putting the radiator in a water filled container.

Offline grumm441

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1868 on: September 27, 2014, 07:50:48 PM »
I see a lot of Triumphs with burnt out alternators. most common repair I do
The alternator cooks and gets hot enough to go a black colour and contaminates the oil.
Check the three yellow alternator wires for a short to earth
G
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1869 on: September 28, 2014, 11:35:58 PM »
Thanks for the advice and the test was done a few minutes ago.  Figuring out how to undo the electrical connector was the hard part.  No grounding yet.  The alternator is still good.

This year I won't do anything except to use the Penrite.  Next winter I will send a sample into the oil analyst to be checked.  The annual oil change might be all I need to do unless the oxidation is compromising the oil's ability to do its job.

Today the Distinguished Gentleman's Ride happened in Portland.  It was not raining so I made a last minute donation and left for the big city early this morning on Clyde, the street Triumph.  There were well over a hundred riders there and maybe 200.  The local Triumph shop was doing a lot to help with the event this year.  European bikes are big here.  More Triumphs than anything else, with Ducatis, Moto Guzzis, BMWs, a Ural, a dozen or so Harleys, and assorted japanese bikes.    It was a lot of fun...until I crashed.  A bunch of us were riding in tight formation way too fast.  The street department fixed a pothole and left a patch of sand on the road right next to it.  I was looking at the bike in front of me and not at the road surface.  One second I was riding the T-100 and a split second later I was skidding on my donkey.  The bike has crash bars so It was rideable and I finished the event.  I sure am sore and stiff now.   

Offline grumm441

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1870 on: September 29, 2014, 03:31:53 AM »
I also went to the DGR. In Melbourne Australia
There were about 300 bikes. It is always a slow affair because of the zero tolerance for traffic infringements here
I didn't go on the ride but met them at the destination. I'm not a fan of riding with others.
G
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Offline charlie101

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1871 on: September 29, 2014, 03:45:45 AM »
Glad to hear you got all joints aligned and limbs attached anyway. A spill is a shocking event. Hope the bike isn't too much damaged.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1872 on: September 29, 2014, 08:20:45 PM »
The crash bar and end of the brake pedal are scratched.  Nothing major.  I was going to wear my suit.  I could not find the tie so I did not wear it.  Since black leather is appropriate attire for any occasion, I wore that.  That kept this minor problem from being a major and more painful one.

Three oil samples are going to ALS Tribology for testing.  Two are new and used Mobil 1 10W-40 with Redline break in additive.  The other is new Penrite Racing 10 for baseline values.  What are the typical tests you'all have done?

 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1873 on: September 30, 2014, 06:53:10 PM »
www.chevelles.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-443674.html

An interesting article on oil.  Somewhere near oil # 70 in the rankings he says adding ZDDP to the oil can screw it up so it performs worse than it would otherwise.  This was the first time I added ZDDP to the oil and besides it being black there are more suspended metal particles than I usually see.  I will not add zddp or additives to the oil any more.

This article has a lot of statements that a big amounts of ZDDP in the oil does nothing for anti-wear properties.  An oil chemist also told me this, too.  Lots of racers the opposite.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1874 on: September 30, 2014, 11:20:19 PM »
Originally I thought this was Al's Tribology and I was expecting it to be in a unit in the back of an industrial park.  It is AIS Tribology and it is an international company with offices all over the planet.

The tests were ordered through our local fuel supplier.  The guy I had to deal with acted like I was supposed to be born knowing all about this subject.  He was no help.  The best I could do was to order the two most popular tests, the C1 and the BOD.  Six samples were sent in.

A call was made to AIS.  It is in Portland.  The lady at the other end of the phone wire was nice and knew a little bit more about testing.  She is asked, through an e-mail, all sorts of questions about these samples.  The last question is "Do we really need all of this phosphorous?"  It will be interesting to see what an expert says.