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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 951252 times)

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Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1620 on: March 17, 2014, 01:10:23 AM »
Very nice work :cheers: Looking forward to see it run.
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1621 on: March 17, 2014, 11:59:18 AM »
Wobbly;

Nice work on that bolt. Did you form a radius under the bolt head?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1622 on: March 20, 2014, 12:51:19 AM »
Neil, it has one now.

Titanium is expensive.  It is tough and it takes a long time to machine it using conventional tools or it can be quickly made using costly specialized tooling.  Ti parts cost a lot and for good reason.

One side project I am working on is fine tuning the street Triumph EFI system.  This is being an excellent way to learn about fuel injection.       

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1623 on: March 20, 2014, 11:30:24 AM »
Wobbly;

I agree with everything you said about titanium. I try to find reasonably priced surplus aerospace Ti bolts and use them when I can.

I still have to learn about EFI-- my current build uses mechanical injection but I foresee the time when it is time to convert it to EFI.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1624 on: March 20, 2014, 11:17:50 PM »
Neil, the "TuneECU" website on the i-net has a downloadable program that works with a lot of different bike fuel injection systems.  The Triumph has a Keihin system and Tune ECU allows me to go in and monkey around with things.  It is a real advantage to start with a working system, make changes one at a time, and then to drive around and see the cause-effect relationships.  This is the way we learned how to work with carbs when we were younger.  Right now I am changing stuff to see what happens and restoring it to its original settings when I am done.

There are some Triumph maps on TuneECU, too.  Comparing the maps is really helpful.  The existing hardware is used for all of this and existing maps are modified.  The only expense is the interface cable so my laptop can talk to the bike.

I am not sure if there is an equivalent of this in the world of cars.  It would be fun if there was.

Offline RidgeRunner

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1625 on: March 21, 2014, 06:46:44 AM »
Wobbly;


I still have to learn about EFI-- my current build uses mechanical injection but I foresee the time when it is time to convert it to EFI.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

     The best single source for info I have found so far is "How To Tune and Modify Automotive Engine Management Systems All-New Edition", 2013, by Jeff Hartman ISBN-13: 978-0-7603-4345-6 published by MBI.  It covers both OEM and aftermarket systems in an easy for me to understand manner - electricity and electronics were never my strong points.  The original 2004 edition was good but this one covers all that plus the significant advances made since then with both OBD II and aftermarket systems, has many more pages.

                  Ed

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1626 on: March 21, 2014, 10:40:50 AM »
Thanks, Wobbly. I have an ECU controller-- an Accel DFI but I have not used it yet. Lots to learn about the subject.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1627 on: March 21, 2014, 10:08:52 PM »
I will look for that engine management book when I am in Portland.  Thanks for the tip.

The mechanical injection might be a good thing if it works.  The EFI issue is one I looked hard at for racing.  The demands for land speed are pretty simple.  It is mainly wide open throttle.  The carbs give the engine all of the mixture it can digest with good atomization.  This engine is not sensitive to mixture.  Anything close to optimum gives good power.  The carbs will stay on for now.  It will take a big power gain to justify getting rid of a simple system that is paid for and putting on a complex one I need to buy. 

Offline grumm441

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1628 on: March 23, 2014, 03:59:02 PM »
This is the finished bolt.  Some of these little tricks were in earlier posts that are spread out over the years.  Here they are all at the same time.  All of this I find to be essential to make ti bolts.

You could've just used a longer allen screw and drilled a hole in the threaded end where it came out the other side
G
Chief Motorcycle Steward Dry Lakes Racers Australia Inc
Wazavudu Bellytank  Spirit of Sunshine Bellytank

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1629 on: March 24, 2014, 12:36:29 AM »
That is a smart solution I never thought of.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1630 on: March 26, 2014, 10:22:44 PM »
The EFI stuff is a side show I am doing to help my son and myself to get our Triumphs running better.  A copy of that book mentioned a few post earlier was available at Powell's books in Portland so I brought it home today.

One thing I am learning is the abruptness of power delivery upon throttle opening and closing is mostly due to the rotating plate throttle.  Carbs with round venturis increase have relatively low increases in flow area when the slide is pulled up from closed.  That goes a long way to giving us the "off idle" throttle control we appreciate.  The rotating plate throttles increase flow area much more quickly when they are opened.  This gives the harsher power delivery.  This is something I could not tune out of the EFI system.

Triumph has all sorts of maps available for different states of tune.  One thing I learned was to look in the upper right corner of the "F" fueling tables to get an idea of how much fuel was being delivered at higher rpm and throttle openings.  Lots of experience with various tunes on the carb bike is a big help.  The fueling table we are using now is the one for triumph off-road mufflers.  It is called a TOR map and part of it is shown in the attachment.  It is a little bit lean for our bikes.  It is designed for free flowing mufflers on a standard engine.  We have free flowing mufflers and we have also taken the noise baffles out of the intake tract.

There is another Triumph map for an Arrow 2 into 1 header and 10% gasahol.  It gives a bit more fuel than the TOR map as shown on the attached.  This afternoon I loaded it onto my bike.  It seems to run better although it started to rain and I could not test it at high speeds.

The Triumph engine management units take wide band lamda sensor data and they trim the fueling tables to fit the bike and fuel.  This fine tunes the mapping and it works if the map is pretty close to begin with.   

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1631 on: March 29, 2014, 09:13:26 PM »
One axle spacer I made for the front wheel replacs the speedometer drive.  The original speedo drive had a 73mm x 55mm x 6mm oil seal.  The spacer I made has a smaller diameter.  A 73mm x 45mm x 10mm seal would ft it and I ordered a couple.  The seals arrived.  They are made in China and junk.  The dimensions stamped on the seals are not what they are.  The idiots made them the wrong size.  I am sending them back for a refund.

All of this makes me mad and I do not want to buy anything except from folks that I know will do a decent job.  Triumph seals are good.  They have quality control staff to make sure they get the right stuff.  A Triumph 75 x 55 x 6 seal was ordered.  Now I need to make a collar to enlarge the wheel spacer from 45mm to 55mm diameter.

A collar is turned from piece of scrap aluminum bar left over from another job.  It will be heated in Rose's kitchen oven to 500 degrees F.  I do not use a torch for this.  It is important to keep the temperature low enough to expand the metal without removing its temper.  This is 6064 Aluminum with a nice T4 or T6 temper and I do not want to anneal it.  The expansion coefficient for this alloy is 12.8 EE -6 inches per degree F.  A 45mm diameter hole expands 0.0056 inches when heated from 65 to 500 degrees F.

The spacer is titanium alloy with a 4.9 EE -6 expansion coefficient.  It will be put in the icebox to cool it down from 65 to 30 degrees F.  It will contract 0.0003 inches.

These added up are 0.0059 inches or 0.006 inches for all practical purposes.  The spacer is 1.772 inches in diameter at 65 degrees F.  Subtracting 0.006 inches from this is 1.766 inches.  The hole in the collar is turned to this size.  There will be about a 0.001 interference fit when the cold spacer is rammed into the hot collar.  The parts will cool and warm to the same temp.  The collar will contract down onto spacer.  This will hold it in place.

The first picture shows the collar being turned.  It will be left attached to the rest of the bar.  This larger part will retain heat better, and stay expanded longer, during the ramming process.  The second picture shows the spacer in the icebox.   

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1632 on: March 29, 2014, 09:22:34 PM »
The collar is put on top of a chunk of billet and both are washed clean of oil and put in the oven.  They are heated up to 500 degrees F.  The billet acts as a heat reservoir to keep the collar hot during the ramming.  The hot collar and billet are taken out of the oven.  The frozen spacer is put on top of it and it is rammed down.  The first picture shows the collar before heating.  The second shows the ramming.

Offline Interested Observer

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1633 on: March 29, 2014, 10:08:07 PM »
Wobbly,
It’s a bit late to note now, but the SKF (Ex-Chicago Rawhide) catalog lists 45x75x8 and 45x75x10 radial shaft seals.  Also, 55x75x8 and 55x75x10.  Probably available from a bearing supply house.  Also, your 73mm OD seems to be completely non-standard--could it have been 72? 
If you want to know more about seals than you ever thought possible, take a look at their pdf download.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1634 on: March 29, 2014, 10:59:54 PM »
Average Joes just buy the Chinese junk because they either don't care or don't know.
 I hate the stuff.

I use the same process for fitting collars. I have a bunch in the deep freeze in zip lock bags just waiting. :-D

Bo, you do great work. :cheers: