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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 800609 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1485 on: December 08, 2013, 06:55:15 PM »
The compressed fuel air mixture is ignited by a kernel of flame around the spark plug tip.  The flame front expands outward toward the combustion chamber edges.  Pressure is applied to the piston and it travels down the bore.  The maximum combustion pressure should occur when the piston and connecting rod big end are in the optimum position.  A pressure spike that occurs when the piston is too close to top dead center produces poor leverage on the crank. The big end bearing is too high in the cylinder stroke.  Excessive combustion chamber pressure occurs and head gaskets blow, rod bearings get hammered, etc.  Power is not optimum.

A pressure spike that occurs when the piston is too far down the bore happens when the crank pin is in a great position to provide leverage.  Unfortunately, the piston is a ways down from the cylinder head and compression is low.  The peak combustion pressure is low.  Power is not at its best.

The peak combustion spike should occur exactly when the rod big end is far enough down to provide good leverage and the piston is high enough in the bore to provide a compressed mixture for combustion.  Optimum power results.  Two things can be adjusted to get everything working right at a given rpm, and these are fuel burn characteristics and ignition timing.

Some fuels have a large fraction of heavier hydrocarbons and other characteristics that make them burn slower with a less pronounced combustion pressure spike.  These are "forgiving" and they will work with a wide range of ignition timing settings and combustion chamber shapes.  Other fuels are fast burning and produce more pronounced combustion pressure spikes.  These "flashy" fuels will produce more power.  To do this, ignition timing needs to be correct.

The first step in this tuning is to get the exhaust and intake harmonics sorted and the mixture correct.  A conservative ignition timing curve is used for this.  The next step, in the old days, was to scribe marks on the points plate so it could be rotated at 2 degree increments in relation to crank position.  The Triumph has a "black box" instead of contact breakers.  Three are being sent to Dorset, in southern England, for for programming.  The curves will be 2 degrees apart.

The peak torque is measured on the dyno with the conservative timing setting.  The timing is advanced in 2 degree increments and the power increases, usually.  There will be a few settings when it dose not change.  Finally, at some far advanced setting, the power will drop.  This work develops a timing vs power curve.  The ignition curve that is selected produces a smidge under peak torque on the retarded side of the curve.

The timing setting done here should be OK for Gairdner.  Both places are at similar altitudes.  The same gasoline will be used for testing here and racing in AUS.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1486 on: December 13, 2013, 08:04:05 PM »
This hillbilly needs some help.  A winter project is upgrading the fuel system hoses.  The plan is to use "AN" connections and braided lines throughout.  I was told "Use this Parker 909 hose.  All the racers do.  You can see it in the hot rod magazines.  It is fire resistant and they do not put sleeve over it."  A 909 hose is in the background in the picture.  Do you all run in DLRA and SCTA with this hose without fire sleeve?

A fellow sold me the silver colored connector on the right.  He said to use female ends with that specific taper and shape.  Our local hydraulics guy sold me the brass fitting on the right.  He said "Don't worry about the differences in tapers.  The female end deforms to conform to the male end after the nut is tightened."  Is he right?
   

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1487 on: December 14, 2013, 10:49:18 AM »
Wobbly;

That Parker 909 hose is good but it is not a replacement for a fire sleeve.

The photos did not appear but I'm guessing that the brass fitting the hydraulics guy sold you is a 45 degree SAE flare fitting. It will NOT mate with a 37 degree AN flare fitting! If this is the case, then that guy does not know what he is talking about.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1488 on: December 14, 2013, 11:23:34 AM »
"The female end deforms to conform to the male end after the nut is tightened."

Now, just what are you doing?
Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club".
Celebrating 67th anniversary of racing on the salt.

Offline JimL

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1489 on: December 14, 2013, 08:39:37 PM »
Bo, I have an AN flaring tool.  If you need to borrow it for a while I can mail it up.  I wont be to the "AN line fitting time" for several more months....just getting to started on the blower brackets.  This cold snap has really knocked the stuffing out of me and my shop time.

JimL

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1490 on: December 14, 2013, 11:20:32 PM »
The photo is attached.

Neil, that "advice" seemed to be sketchy so I checked it out with you'all here on the forum.  The local speed shop can make me hoses to fit AN fittings and sell me the fittings.  It will cost me more than going to the tractor supply.  The extra cost will be worth it, I figure.

Stan, sex and triumph repair are sorta similar.  Grunting, pounding, and sweating.

Jim, I remember making brake lines for a car.  They were all metal lines and we cut and flared the ends.  The braided lines have ends that are pre-flared and a fellow simply pushes them on the hose and crimps the cover down onto the hose to hold it tight.  Is this the tool you are mentioning?         

Offline JimL

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1491 on: December 15, 2013, 01:09:48 AM »
I use it to flare stainless or mild steel tubing to fit AN couplers, to accept the braided hoses.  You can get a great deal on pre-made braided hoses from Speedway, in many lengths.  You may save money and space by making some sections from tube....which is what my tool flares.  There are places where the braided hose is just too big around or is too close to "tender things" such as engines cases or harnesses.  Those stainless braided hoses are VERY effective saws!

Be careful, and be sure to look at my stainless brake hose support on page 33 of my book.  Thats a quick and easy way to avoid trouble.

JimL

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1492 on: December 15, 2013, 01:31:47 AM »
Thanks, Jim.  Protecting tender things is a goal of this project.  I will give you a call.

The Guzzler fuel valves I ordered have 5/16 hose barbs.  I ordered them before I went on the AN fitting binge.  This limits me a bit.  I need a flexible hose material that can slip over a barb on one end and be attached to an AN fitting on the other.  These fuel lines can do this and they are designed for gasoline with some ethanol mixed in with it.  They are fire resistant.  I was figuring on using them with fire sleeves.  Are there better choices?  Has anyone used these?

www.gates.com/brocure.cfm?brocure=5090&location_id=5245  

ph.parker.com/us/15551/en/fire-resistant-marine-fuel-hose-221fr  

I will look at using some tube and the Speedway hoses, too.

Offline JimL

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1493 on: December 15, 2013, 02:35:29 AM »
I bet there is a fitting to connect AN to a barb that takes 5/16" hose.  Anyway, Here is a 1/2-20 part that gets you to AN, and there are 1/2-20 to 5/16" barbs available.  A 1/2-20 female coupler would join those.  That short section of barb fitted hose could be helpful in a tight area, and you can use that 1/8" model airplane stainless landing gear wire to support at the AN side of the fitting.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/97-Style-Carburetor-AN-Fuel-Inlet-Fitting,951.html

Prob'ly someone knows a better-cheaper way.

JimL

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1494 on: December 15, 2013, 09:26:52 AM »
Since you seem to be a bit of a machinist, when your valves arrive look at reworking them to an AN fitting.  Either tap the valve for a fitting or if there is not enough meat weld on a fitting. 
Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Online salt27

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1495 on: December 15, 2013, 11:23:37 AM »
Bo,
 You can buy just the outlet part of the "Guzzlers" (I had to change mine).

I don't know the rules for other venues but for the SCTA 7.B.25 states that "All non-valve portions of fuel or gas lines, shall have fire-resistant or fireproof connecting lines and fittings".

So you may not need fire sleeve.

Hope this helps, Don

Offline manta22

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1496 on: December 15, 2013, 06:02:31 PM »
The photo is attached.

Neil, that "advice" seemed to be sketchy so I checked it out with you'all here on the forum.  The local speed shop can make me hoses to fit AN fittings and sell me the fittings.  It will cost me more than going to the tractor supply.  The extra cost will be worth it, I figure.

Stan, sex and triumph repair are sorta similar.  Grunting, pounding, and sweating.

Jim, I remember making brake lines for a car.  They were all metal lines and we cut and flared the ends.  The braided lines have ends that are pre-flared and a fellow simply pushes them on the hose and crimps the cover down onto the hose to hold it tight.  Is this the tool you are mentioning?         

I don't see any photos but maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Mixing SAE 45 degree fittings with AN 37 degree fittings is an all-to-common error. It will leak and no amount of tightening will solve the problem. If a fitting is brass, chances are it is a 45 degree flare fitting; a blue anodized aluminum one is almost always a 37 degree AN fitting. Stainless AN fittings are around-- just not common because of cost. Steel AN fittings are also encountered sometimes. Pipe thread fittings are available in SAE or AN but the SAE brass ones are much more common and less expensive.

Real AN fittings are very nicely made but "AN lookalike" fittings might be OK or not.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1497 on: December 15, 2013, 10:06:19 PM »
Neil, I also don't see photos.

Bo, get the Aeroquip catalogue if you can. There's a lot of good info in there. :cheers:

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1498 on: December 15, 2013, 11:40:34 PM »
I tried twice to post the photo.  Weird.  I will try again.

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1499 on: December 16, 2013, 08:45:38 AM »
Two totally different systems not to be used together Bo.

Pete