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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1017894 times)

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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1350 on: September 14, 2013, 02:44:28 PM »
Great Crate 8-)

I suggest you install a tie-down 'eye' between each of the tine-slots on the 'pallet' to add security by pulling from the shock mounts. By compressing the rear suspension the front straps become secondary. Another suggestion is to install a block of rigid foam below the motor to prevent blowing-out the front fork seals.

Now if you figure out how to lower the bowling-ball, your screen and all will be lower than the top 'hoop'.............and I am willing to bet you'll go faster when you get to Australia.
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline joea

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1351 on: September 14, 2013, 03:29:00 PM »
lowering the bowling ball and screen to fit the crate may be abit silly if it doesnt fit the rider when on top of the bike...

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1352 on: September 15, 2013, 01:01:45 AM »
Jim, I am not sure how accurate my method is for determining the absolute value of a drag coefficient.  I am using speed data from Bonneville with rear wheel hp from Beaverton and rolling drag formulas from tests on a little can Am that is a lot different than the whale I have.  The good thing about what I am doing is using many years of data in the same way for each year.  This is pretty good at detecting trends.  I would not worry about your drag coefficient being what it is.

Peter, these folks at Cascade Moto have been putting up with me for years and they always help when they can.

Dennis, the block under the engine and more eyes is something I will do.  An expert I talked to at BUB told me how to reshape the front to get more downdraft.

Joe, Rose takes lots of pictures of me on the bike when I am doing all of this and I will make sure there is good frontal coverage.         

Offline joea

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1353 on: September 15, 2013, 11:33:14 AM »
wobbly, yes I have seen many of those picks of you on bike, and realize where your helmet and torso
height and profile are....

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1354 on: September 16, 2013, 12:46:19 AM »
Today I tried out Dennis' suggestion.  I took the tank off and sat on the bike.  I can get lower, not much, but about 2 or 3 inches.  To do this I need to move my feet back to near the passenger pegs.  This will take a lot of work so I will do it after I get back from AUS.

The attached is an aero drag formula that considers air density.  The air density that Bradley used for his formula is:  11,218 / 146,806 = 0.0764 pounds per cubic foot.  This is air slightly warmer than 60 degrees Fahrenheit near or at sea level.

It is always good to know how these things are derived and it is shown.  This was not in any of my books so I had to figure it out.  Some folks ask me why I drink.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1355 on: September 16, 2013, 11:36:16 PM »
One thing I want to do before moving to a turbo is to run the engine on methanol.  FIM rules allow this in the class I run.  It seems smart to learn about the fuel on a NA motor, first.  One of the VP methanol blends with top end lubricant seems best.

A rule of thumb for methanol consumption is one gallon per horsepower per mile.  I did some figuring based on 100 hp.  It takes a lot of meth to make a run on the salt.  I figure I will need a standard size fuel tank to make 2 runs including warming up the engine and driving to and from the course ends.  A smaller tank will not have enough capacity.

I put the tank back on with the pegs moved back and I found I can still get pretty low down on the tank compared to what I can do now.  It is comfortable, too.  The tank supports my copious abdomen and this takes some of the load off of my arms.

Offline generatorshovel

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1356 on: September 17, 2013, 01:24:33 AM »
Bo, when running straight methanol, increase all your jet sizes by 2.2,the go up a bit more as a starting point (lean don't last long, rich won't cost you too much HP, as fuel is very forgiving, Ideal C/R for fuel is 16/1 to get the most power out of it, make sure your system will handle the increased flow (BIG fuel lines)
Research your jet size flow fates, your engine's CFM requirements and get a good idea how much fuel capacity you will need (the blown 250 holds 6 liters)
Good luck mate
Oh yeah, Methanol is a PITA to clean out after use, and it HAS to be done,
Tiny
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I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1357 on: September 17, 2013, 03:43:24 AM »
The easy way to clean out the methanol is to plug in an accessory gas tank in place of the methanol tank. Start the bike and let it idle. When the idle starts to speed up that means the gas has made it right through the system so shut it down. The fuel system is now thoroughly pickled. Drain the tank and you're done. Simple!  :-o :-o :-D

Pete

Offline generatorshovel

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1358 on: September 17, 2013, 07:22:15 AM »
The easy way to clean out the methanol is to plug in an accessory gas tank in place of the methanol tank. Start the bike and let it idle. When the idle starts to speed up that means the gas has made it right through the system so shut it down. The fuel system is now thoroughly pickled. Drain the tank and you're done. Simple!  :-o :-o :-D

Pete

Have you ever noticed what methanol & gas mix like Pete ?
Not something I'd want resting in my fuel system.
WD40 works better.
Tiny
Tiny (in OZ)
I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1359 on: September 17, 2013, 09:21:53 AM »

A rule of thumb for methanol consumption is one gallon per horsepower per mile.  I did some figuring based on 100 hp.  It takes a lot of meth to make a run on the salt.  I figure I will need a standard size fuel tank to make 2 runs including warming up the engine and driving to and from the course ends.  A smaller tank will not have enough capacity.


 :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :-o
You're gonna need a trailer to haul that much fuel   :roll:
did ya leave something out of that equation   :-D
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1360 on: September 17, 2013, 10:15:51 PM »
The rate for planning purposes is 100 gallons per horsepower per hour.  Figuring on 4.5 miles full throttle on a 3-mile course with a 2 mile run up.  This is 0.03 hours at full throttle at 150 mph.  0.03 x 100 = 3.0 gallons  This does not include warming up the engine and accelerating the first half mile.  At BUB, 2.5 miles full throttle at 150 mph uses 1.7 gallons with extra needed for driving off the course and warming up the engine and accelerating the first half mile.

I was looking at building two side by side tanks on either side of the main frame tube.  This would get me down lower.  I cannot get this fuel capacity when I do it.  I need to stay with the standard tank.  It holds lots of fuel.  A few years ago I bought a dented tank from a Thruxton just for fuel use.

This fuel stuff I will do after I get back from AUS and before I put on the turbo.  I just do not want to do a lot of work  now I will need to undo later.

Thanks, Tiny and Peter, I will be asking a lot of questions when the time comes.     

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1361 on: September 19, 2013, 05:28:07 PM »
That "per hour" kinda changes things, huh?
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1362 on: September 19, 2013, 06:29:02 PM »
The easy way to clean out the methanol is to plug in an accessory gas tank in place of the methanol tank. Start the bike and let it idle. When the idle starts to speed up that means the gas has made it right through the system so shut it down. The fuel system is now thoroughly pickled. Drain the tank and you're done. Simple!  :-o :-o :-D

Pete

Have you ever noticed what methanol & gas mix like Pete ?
Not something I'd want resting in my fuel system.
WD40 works better.
Tiny

I've used both WD40 and gasoline and have been much more satisfied using the gas system which tends to drive the methanol out of the system. This is with fuel injected systems with sprint cars and Indy cars. It is the standard accepted method of purging the systems on Indy cars. You may want to drain the float bowls on the carbs in that kind of engine after the purge.

Pete
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 06:33:08 PM by Peter Jack »

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1363 on: September 20, 2013, 12:25:10 AM »
Almost all of my dyno data is corrected using the old SAE J607 standard.  This is often called the Standard or STD correction.  This gives me the horsepower I would expect where there is 60 degree F temperature, 0% humidity, and 29.29 inches of mercury station pressure.  Type "Wallace Racing" into a search engine.  All sorts of calculators there.  One will give you two different correction factors and one is SAE J607.  The correction factor is used to convert the indicated dyno horsepower into standard hp.  This allows a fellow in Denver to compare numbers with someone in London, for example.

The correction factors can be use in reverse.  The climatic data from Bonneville time slips averages out to a 1.18 correction factor.  The reciprocal is 1/1.18 = 0.847  As an example, my bike puts out 67 hp corrected using SAE J607.  I could expect 0.847 x 67 = 57 hp at Bonneville.  This is using a correction factor to estimate power loss due to altitude.

Some folks use air density to estimate power loss.  Salt flats climatic data is input into another Wallace Racing calculator to get air weight density.  The air density is 0.0762 pounds per cubic foot at standard conditions.  The average air density at Bonneville is 0.0640 lbs per cu ft.  0.0640 / 0.0762= 0.840

A third way is the airplane study.  That will be tomorrow's post. 

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1364 on: September 20, 2013, 06:50:34 PM »
Tonight I am packing up the cylinder head to send to Mike Perry at Kibblewhite for the flow test.  An air cleaner, carbs, inlet manifold, cylinder head, and header pipe are in the boxes going out.  He wants all of this to give me some complete numbers.

I was going to ask him how much more lift I can accommodate with the 28mm cam follower buckets.  The cam tip should not ride on the edge of the buckets and that might be a limiting factor.  He has already told me the maximum lift the spring setup will handle without coil bind.

Is there anything else I should ask for?