(Note: LANDRACING.COM donations are not tax deductible)


This is a public forum. The opinions expressed here don't
necessarily reflect the feelings of The Folks That Run The Site (that's us)
unless we explicitly say so, ok?


Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1017891 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1290 on: August 07, 2013, 07:31:09 PM »
The Fasenal folks here are very nice to me and they gave me a full refund for the die.  A random check of their other Chinese taps and dies shows this is not an isolated incident.  One 14 mm x 1.25 mm tap was over 15 mm dia from point to point.  They have a problem.  I no longer do.  My solution was to type "American made 14 mm x 1.25 mm die" into the internet.  I ordered a Hanson one and it arrived in two days.  The die and shipping was cheaper than the Chinese one and it cuts the threads to the right size.  Unfortunatly, I lost three machined parts.  The die cutting was the last operation on the lot.

Some time around noon on Monday I realized dyno day was actually yesterday rather than tomorrow.  The boss left his office for lunch and I went in and left a note saying I would be out for Monday afternoon and Tuesday.  How could he say no if he wasn't there?  Then I headed home and started to work.  Switching carbs was first.  The breather catch tank does not fit under the race carbs so I moved it to a frame side rail as shown in the photo.   One of my fancy brass fittings was going to connect the breather to the side cover.  The goofy die wrecked it so I used this manifold fitting from a 1972 Toyota pickup truck.  Never ever throw anything away.  There is always a time you will need it.  There was an extra spigot for a small tube.  I put a tube on it and plugged the end with a nail, Leroy style.  The photo shows this masterpiece of Mickey Mouse mayhem.

The break in oil came out and new racing oil and a filter went in.  It was getting dark and I was fagged out.  It was time to switch the cams and reshim the valves.  This is very tedious, mental, and time consuming.  The whole operation was done by brain stem thinking.  It was very dark and I got done after midnight.  All sorts of night animals wander around this place just beyond the glow of the work lights.  It is creepy.




     .       

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1291 on: August 07, 2013, 07:37:46 PM »
Up early the next morning, I was.  The last tasks were done and the pix shows the old girl is ready to go on the trailer and go north to the dyno.  A test ride was in order.  The bike is too fast to ride it and see how fast it is.  It makes that nice 'lumpa lumpa" exhaust sound on decel like a nice and proper Triumph with hot cams.     

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1292 on: August 09, 2013, 12:02:23 AM »
#@6%0&!  84 hp with the old 865 motor and 84 hp with the new 995 one.  Golf is looking good right now.

What I do is wind the bike up to 8,000 rpm in fourth and shift up into fifth.  The rpm in 5th will be around 6,240 after the shift.  I want the bike to climb up to my 7,400 target rpm before it goes into the measured mile.  The little slivers of torque and horsepower are the improvements above last year.

The 10% increase in peak torque was what I expect.  My hope was the torque increase would occur throughout the entire power band.  This would put the power in the low 90's and I would have a chance at getting the record if conditions are good and I ride well.  No chance of that.  I am "dead on arrival" at BUB record wise.

The job now is to make the best of what I have.  The speeds I expect will be the topic of the next post.  All that power at low to mid rpm sure is fun on the street.   

Offline Koncretekid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1130
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia & Lafayette, Co.
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1293 on: August 09, 2013, 05:10:04 AM »
I know how you feel, Bo.  All those changes, sweet torque curve, and it all comes together at 8000 rpm with no increase in peak hp (although I didn't spend as much money on intake manifolds as you did on pistons, etc!)  Maybe you should consider coming to Miller raceway the following weekend to race in the "Thruxton TransAtlantic Challenge" race. Your new torque monster should kick-a** in that class.  Of course, they might frown on the mods you have made to the "Triumph fairing."
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline RidgeRunner

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 827
  • Location: Ashfield, in the Territories of Western Massachusetts
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1294 on: August 09, 2013, 11:27:39 AM »
Bo

     Those numbers might not be as bad as they appear at first glance.  Although the instant peak HP didn't increase you picked up a lot of total HP and torque under the whole curve.  There is a theory that it takes time to build speed, if it applies in your case the bike will build speed faster and allow the "thin slivers of improvement" to get more work done on the top end.  The only numbers that count in the end come from the great white dyno, if they didn't everybody could save big bucks on travel fuel, food, and lodging.

     Your systematic approach and level of documentation has made this a very interesting build to follow.  I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your efforts.  All the best for staying safe, having fun, and going faster than you might be expecting.


                                                         Ed


Offline Old Scrambler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Wherever I park the RV
  • Going Fast - Slowly
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1295 on: August 09, 2013, 03:47:34 PM »
Yes...........you have considerable more HP and TQ at your RPM goal. Do you have rear sprockets with less teeth?
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1296 on: August 09, 2013, 09:20:50 PM »
Tom, I quit serious cornering decades ago.  The incident involved a curve in the road between Hart Park and Bakersfield, a raised traffic separation island in the middle of it, and a Yamaha XS-1100.  It scared me for life.  Before that I was a fairly good pavement racer.  Thanks for the encouragement, Dennis and Ed.  I need that.

My "how fast will I go chart' is used in the next two posts.  The curves should be based on combined drag and frontal area values corrected for altitude with friction losses added.  Instead, I use some reasonable looking curves from John Bradley's book "The Racing Motorcycle."  Look at Volume 1 for instructions on how to make the curves.  Some day I will upgrade my chart.

The 2012 values are on a 3-mile course and they do not mean anything - considering everything else is from 5 mile runs.  The 2011 values are used today.  These are my last runs on the longer track.  Advice is, do development runs on the course you will be trying to set records on.  This makes the data you collect more useful.

The dashed line starts at the 2011 data points and goes along following the curves.  It represents the speed vs power relationship for the scooter with 2011 streamlining.  Note that I can go 141 mph with the power the new motor produces.  It will have 72.2 hp as corrected for salt flats density altitude.  This is 84 rear wheel hp on the dyno in Beaverton.  I need 102 rear wheel dyno hp to go 150 and 127 hp to go 160 and break the record.

         

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1297 on: August 09, 2013, 09:31:27 PM »
Decreased aero and friction drag gives more speed for the same power.  This causes the data points to move horizontally across the chart.  Note that I am a whole bunch better at reducing drag than developing power in the engine.  Going in a horizontal path from the point where 72.2 hp meets the dashed line, it will take 9 mph to get to 150 and 19 mph to reach 160.  Are two years of streamlining improvements worth 19 mph?  There is a remote possibility.  Can the better tinwork get me 9 mph?  Probably.  I will try for that.  150 mph is a great personal goal.  The next post will be about choosing the sprockets.

   

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1298 on: August 10, 2013, 12:23:12 PM »
This is my sprocket sheet.  It tells me the speeds I can expect with the ones I have.  7,500 rpm is right at the middle of the horsepower peak.  I try to get as close as I can to that during the measured mile.  This sheet was originally written up at a DariQueen somewhere and I edit it over the years.  My apologies for not posting something neater.

A target speed of 150 mph is chosen.  This is realistic as discussed in the last post.  A 38-tooth rear will get me there.  The advantage of it is that it will give the engine the most leverage on the salt.  The disadvantage is it will take higher rpm to do it than the others.

The 36-tooth one might get me there, too.  The good thing about it is the engine will turn lower rpm.  Sometimes this helps if the motor, as tuned, runs out of power a higher rpm.  The disadvantage is that it provides less leverage on the salt.

The 35-tooth one will be tossed into the truck for the trip.

This is a new motor so I will start out with the 36.  This will keep the revs down.  Next I will try the 38.  This second run will be the last if I go faster.  The 35 will stay in the truck.  What happens if the 38 gives less speed than the 36?  The 35 will go on and I will make a third run.

Sprocketology.   

Offline Cereal KLR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Location: San Mateo, California
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1299 on: August 10, 2013, 08:43:11 PM »
Can`t wait to see this in two weeks  :-D   I will make sure to find you this year and say hello.
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1300 on: August 11, 2013, 07:13:38 PM »
We had our annual event today.  I just got home.  It starts with a rider meeting just like Bonneville.  There is a meat wagon to carry folks to the hospital, porta potties, and radio communication between the checkpoints, just like on the salt.

A lot of bikes carry enough fuel to go the distance and some do not.  My job is to drive the gas truck out and back from the far reaches of the course.  It is one of the many jobs involved with holding the event.  There is no event gas.  A racer brings their own and can use whatever they like.

 

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1301 on: August 11, 2013, 07:28:59 PM »
This is a check.  It is like the 5 mile or 7 mile ones on the salt, except it is in the woods.  The lady is checking the riders off on a list as they come in and the radio crew is reporting all of this to the pits.  My job is to make sure they are not smoking while refueling.  A lot of bikes do not have a side stand and I hold them up while they pour in the gas.  We have fire fighting equipment at hand.  Two of those are a shovel and a pile of dirt.  This is not like that on the salt.

This is a 2014 Yamaha.  The cyl tilts towards the back.  The exhaust comes out of the back and completely loops around the cyl.  The injector is at the front.  A big problem with dirt bikes is keeping enough weight on the front wheel.  This concept seems to make that worse.  Also, it puts the injector in a location where it gets covered with mud.  There must be some benefits to offset this. 

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1302 on: August 11, 2013, 07:46:24 PM »
Oregon has long winters and folks do not have much money.  Major fabrication is the result.  These guys in Estacada had the typical shop tools of every logger, a wrecked Suzuki Samurai, $500, and their junk pile.  The diffs front and rear are narrowed Suzi ones.  The transfer case is Suzi, too.  The motor is some sort of Honda.  There are a bunch of Chevy parts and there are all kinds of bicycle components.  The hood is bent up from a road sign.  They made the frame and everything else.  The only new part is the winch at the front.  The first version got to weaving at speed and flipped.  They monkeyed around with this and that.  Now it wiggles a bit and it stays upright.  The guys built this thing so they could sit side by side, drink beer, and putt around in the woods.  They did a good job.

The breather is fixed, the front fairing is on, and now I am finishing up the rear sets.  The build is coming along just great.  Tonight I will change the fork springs.   

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1303 on: August 13, 2013, 11:40:56 PM »
Now it is time to adjust the carb jetting for Bonneville.  The carbs are jetted for maximum power on the dyno in Beaverton.  The climatic conditions during the dyno run with the finalized jet choice is in red on the printout.  Last year's is in blue for comparison.  The temperature is 93.36 degrees F, the air pressure is 30.02 inches mercury, and the humidity is 12 percent.

All of this is entered into the calculator at http://airdensityonline.com  An uncorrected barometric reading is entered so the 150 foot Beaverton physical elevation is not used.  The density altitude during the final jetting pull is 2,190 feet.

     


Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1304 on: August 14, 2013, 11:24:32 PM »
Rose and Gretchen have been in Virginia for the last week and a half helping my oldest boy and his wife.  She just had a baby.  My daughter in law had it, not Rose.  My days during this time are to get up in the morning, put in an hour or so on the bike, go to work, get home and have a beer, then work on the bike till 9 at night.  This is outdoors work.  Fortunately the weather is good.  The parents of one of Gretchen's friends see this.  They figure I am not eating all that good and they invite me over for dinner.  All of the steak, chicken, fish, potatoes, etc I can eat.  Beer, too.  That is a nice thing for them to do.

The bike is run on the dyno with all sorts of main jets.  The operator selects the ones he feels that give the best power.  These are a pair of #138's.  The curves are real close together on the dyno graph and tangled up like worms making love.  It is hard to make and judgements except to pick the ones that work best.

We look at the mixture curves and pick some jet sizes that are far enough apart to look at the curves and to compare them.  The 132 jets are the final selection and they are the red curves.  A pair of 128 jets are two sizes smaller and they are the green curves.  A pair of 140's are three sizes bigger and they are the blue curves.  Note that that are about one part apart on the mixture curves.

The curves show me that I lose big power if I go leaner than the 132's.  They also show me that it does not make a big difference if I go richer.  This is a big help.  Tomorrow I will figure out which jets to put in for B'ville.