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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1017890 times)

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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1260 on: June 26, 2013, 06:01:16 AM »
Bo,
Any crankcase ventilation scheme/device you come up with will be plagued with oil leakage problems if you do not use a one-way valve.  If the original crankcase breather is left in place, then it too must be fitted with a valve, or both vents teed together and then connected to such a valve, or you are wasting your time.  Your big 900cc motor is a big air pump that wants to push out 900cc of air with every downstroke and suck it back in on the upstroke.  By adding a one way valve you create a partial vacuum in the crankcase which will solve most if not all of your oil leakage.  I would close the breathers which are down low on the motor, and use the one that connects to the cam/valve cover.  You should only need one with such a valve, because once the pressure equalizes, there will be very little air movement thru the breather.  I am trying a homemade reed valve, but also found an inexpensive unit from MikesXS650 site that should work (haven't tried either one  on the track, yet.)
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1261 on: June 27, 2013, 12:51:08 AM »
There was a lot of air coming out of the breather when I ran the engine.  After work I went down to the NAPA store and asked for a crankcase PCV valve for a big car motor.  This is it.  The hole in the top is small.  This tells me there is not much air coming out of an engine due to leakage past the rings.  The big breeze I was seeing must be air that is sucked in and blown out again.  The valve is installed on top of the catch tank.  It keeps air from being sucked in and only lets it blow out.  Hopefully this will clam things down and the oil will stay in the engine.     

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1262 on: June 27, 2013, 04:21:48 AM »
Bo,
The PCV valve will work for awhile.  It doesn't like to keep up at higher RPM's.  But you can always add the reed valve in its place if you continue to blow oil out the breather line.
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1263 on: June 28, 2013, 12:18:39 AM »
The breather setup was installed and I took the bike out for a run on the freeway to see how everything worked at high rpm.  There was a little misfire for a fraction of a second, then another for about a quarter of a second, then a permanent misfire.  Nothing.  An electrical problem.  I was going to walk home and get the truck and trailer.  Then I remembered the 10 grand I have in the motor and the bike was at the side of the freeway.  It was a three mile push and both of us are home.  Golf is looking pretty good right now.

Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1264 on: June 28, 2013, 07:15:49 AM »
I like to have a cell with me most times.
bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events -- made a 2 state change in ZIP codes

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007

Offline Cereal KLR

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1265 on: June 28, 2013, 08:59:47 AM »
Three mile push will make your leathers fit better, something I need to address myself. Other than death, is there a 20 lb/month weight loss method that still includes beer?
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1266 on: July 01, 2013, 12:34:49 AM »
Cereal, bike pushing will make you lose weight.  I know this.

The breather was installed with the PVC valve and it continued to fill the catch tank.  Some looking around town was in order.  I found two different scouring pads.  The copper one is a "Chore Boy."  Odd.  I remember them called "Chore Girls" awhile back.  One pad was stainless and I did not use it.  Stainless fragments would mess up the engine more than copper ones if the pad deteriorated and some pieces got down into the motor.  This did not work, either.  The oil/air mix came up from the engine and went right up through the filter and into the catch tank.

Now I made a brass ferrule to put in the breather line above the filter.  A Keihin 198 main jet is screwed in.  This is a restrictor.  Now the oil/air mix goes into the filter, the air bubbles out, and it goes up through the orifice and into the catch tank.  One picture shows the restrictor and the other shows the setup.  The line from the original breather is routed into the catch tank, too.

This evening Rose and I rode out to Silverton, a nearby town, for dinner.  The catch tank s empty after all of this.  The breather is working OK.   

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1267 on: July 01, 2013, 12:36:17 AM »
The whole setup.

Offline salt27

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1268 on: July 01, 2013, 12:41:43 AM »
Bo,
What was the issue that caused the long push.

Thanks, Don

Offline grumm441

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1269 on: July 01, 2013, 04:24:33 AM »
Bo
I have a similar problem with some new Moto Guzzi's moving all the oil from the oil pan into the airbox and then onto the back wheel
I have been using an open filter type foam in the breather which seems to work
As for breaking down, I have this Ducati 998 at work that runs perfect for me but fails every time the customer gets on it
Well it finally stopped for me on Wednesday, and this is me waiting on the freeway for my apprentice to come and pick me up
At least it wasn't raining
G
Chief Motorcycle Steward Dry Lakes Racers Australia Inc
Wazavudu Bellytank  Spirit of Sunshine Bellytank

Offline Cereal KLR

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1270 on: July 01, 2013, 12:06:01 PM »
Any plan to run any carbs other than the CV`s?  I had heard over the years of cv type carbs fluttering at WOT and considered some of the Keihin 35mm CR-2 smooth bores. The lack of $600 to update what is now acceptable street bike performance has keep me from experimenting.
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1271 on: July 02, 2013, 12:54:19 AM »
Don, the red wire is the feed for the lambda meter setup and it passed over the top of the aluminum circuit box.  My weight on the seat pushed the wire down onto the box and it shorted and blew a fuse.  Grumm's customer might weigh more than him and the same thing might be happening on the Ducati.  The fellow that does my dyno tuning says "You have the bird nest philosophy of wiring things.  Bundle your wires neatly and tie them to something so they are not loose.  That will save you a lot of trouble."  He is correct.  Neat wiring would have saved me the big push.

Grumm, it seems these oil breathers have an unobstructed flow rate and it can be much larger than the flow rate where they can separate the air from the oil.  An obstruction like foam or an orifice that slows the flow rate down enough makes them work.

Cereal, if I used a racing carb on the street it would be one with an enrichening circuit for starting.  Do the CR's have this?  If so, they would be a better choice than the flat slides if you switched.

The OEM carbs are what I use for the street motor.  They are working great with this 994cc engine with 10.5 to 1 compression, 790 cams, 2mm larger intake valves, and a port job.  That is a lot of engine and no capacity problems are observed.  The advantage of the standard carbs is they can be jetted to provide a slightly leaner than stoichiometric ratio over a wider range of conditions and this promotes engine life.

The standard carbs and the racing cams never worked well.  Also, I needed a bit more air flow at top end.  The flat slides work great with the cams and have lots of flow capacity.  Unfortunately, starting is done by flooding the engine with raw fuel from the accelerator pump.  The last engine had very short life due to excessive top end wear.  This raw fuel at starting, and some richness at lower rpm due to reversion killed that motor.  Now I use the racing cams and carbs for Bonneville, only.       

There is a fellow in England that will bore out the OEM carbs.   

     

Offline salt27

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1272 on: July 02, 2013, 01:05:10 AM »
Note taken on the wiring.

I will try not to make the same mistake.

Thanks, Don

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1273 on: July 08, 2013, 12:08:02 AM »
The first 20 miles of the break in was accelerating or engine breaking.  I did not do any cruising or sustained high rpm running.  The breather catch tank filled up and oil got all over the back of the bike including the tire during this.  It took a week or so for me to forget about going sideways.  An oily tire don't grip too good.  The things I did are in the most recent posts.

Saturday morning was the monthly Triumph club breakfast so I headed up to Portland.  A lot of riding was on the freeway and I got up to 80 mph a few times.  The breather catch tank was emptied when I got home.  About a teaspoon was in it.  It was a small amount of oil with greater proportions of funk and spooge.  This is acceptable and expected.  The breather works.  I routed a hose from it to a beer can full of water.  Bubbles came out of the end when I ran the bike.

There was a #298 Keihin main jet used as a choke in the breather hose during the trip.  I drilled it out to 5/64 and put it back in.   The plan is to incrementally open the choke point in the hose until I start to collect oil.  Then I will put in a choke that is slightly smaller.

There is a coffee shop/cafe in Portland with a small store on the side with bike stuff like chain lube.  The customer are a mixed group and this is unusual for here.  Out in front there were a Moto Guzzi, a BMW, a couple of Harley baggers, a Harley chopper, a Ducati monster, and my Triumph.  The coffee and a sandwich were decent  It was the first time I was there.  seeseemotorcycles.com

There were some forum comments about my diminutive landracing.com stickers.  Slim sent me some full size ones.  There is etiquette.  The largest and most predominate stickers are for the main sponsor.  The Triumph shop is not an official sponsor.  They do put up with me and they help me a lot.  Some ginormous shop stickers solve the problem.  Now I can put on the landracing.com ones Slim sent and not commit a faux pas.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1274 on: July 09, 2013, 12:08:12 AM »
The task now is jetting the CV carbs.  The first step is to make sure the pilot jets are clean, the float levels are set, and the needles and needle jets are not worn.  It is a good idea to replace the needles and needle jets if they have over 20,000 miles on them.  When all is good I go to the next step.

Step 2 is to hook up the lambda meter and drive around while looking at the fuel/air ratios.  I monkey around with the pilot jets and needles to get the mixture within the 12:1 to 14:1 range during normal street use.  The mixture will be on the richer side during hot days and on the leaner side during colder times.

Step 3 is to put the bike on the dyno and to adjust the main jets to produce maximum power.

Step 4 is to recheck the pilot and needle settings during actual use using the fuel/are mixture gage.

A few things to be careful about.  Gasahol can give a "weak mixture" feeling during low throttle acceleration.  Carb jetting done by feel can lead to an overly rich mixture in an attempt to cure this.  My method is to set the mixture to stoicho or slightly leaner and to live with the problem.

Sometimes it is impossible to get the mixture correct at some throttle settings and rpms.  Reversion might be the problem.  It was on the last engine and an overly rich mixture probably lead to lots of top end wear.  That, and flooding the engine to start it on cold days.

This engine is built with the standard Triumph cams, the standard carbs and headers, Triumph off-road mufflers, and the inlet lengths are the same as with the standard air box.  The only changes are higher compression, more displacement, a ported head, 2mm larger intake valves, and a stage 3 spark advance curve.  The reversion is gone and I can use an enrichener circuit, rather than flooding to start the engine.  The motor runs really well.  It is the smoother than it has ever been and lots of power at all rpm.  Credit Revco Pecision for balancing the crank.

The big difference this time around was using PipeMax to design the motor.  Carbs, cams, valves, etc. are all sized to choke at redline, and not any higher.  This gives me maximum port velocities during use.