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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1017882 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1245 on: June 20, 2013, 11:38:20 PM »
The recent math and measuring exercise shows me I am within the displacement limit for the 1000cc class, I have 10.5 to 1 compression, and I do not have enough deck clearance to raise the compression using a thinner head gasket.  I will need pistons with higher domes and that is not feasible now.

A engine with 10.5 to 1 compression can be marginal for street gas.  There are things I can do like run a different spark advance curve or use an octane supplement.  First, I need to see if I have a problem.  A fuel detonation warning light was ordered from KnockLink.  These things are pretty basic.  They glow red if there is engine knock from detonation of other something else, like a blown bearing.

The first step is to mount the sensor to the engine block.  The last post showed me filling the cooling passage in the cylinders with oil.  The plug for the passage will be removed, a sensor mount stud will be installed, and the sensor will be bolted on.  The mount has a slot in it for a small screwdriver to screw it in and out.  It is important that it not corrode in place and so I cannot unscrew it.  This area is exposed to salt during the race.

It is time to consult the old military chart.  Aluminum, steel, or zinc studs will not corrode in the aluminum cylinder block.  I need strength so mild steel is the choice.  It is sprayed with a zinc rich paint before installation.  Some Yamabond is used as a sealer.  I do not expect to have any trouble removing the plug when I need to.  The sensor, stud, and nut is shown.  The original aluminum plug is also shown.  This is the project where I used the hard-to-get pipe tap.           

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1246 on: June 21, 2013, 07:56:18 PM »
The sensor is bolted onto the cylinder head.  The instructions say to keep the wires away from ignition components.  The wires are looped around and tied onto the clutch cable.  This route is low and away from the igniter box, coils, etc.  The brains are in the light casing.  It is made to be mounted on a car dash and it is not water or vibration proof.  I spend all afternoon making a water proof and foam lined housing for the light.  A smart guy would buy an el-cheapo flashlight, take out the guts, put the light in, and call it good.  The light will be used for setup and tuning, only.  The mount is a couple of zip ties around the handlebar.

The setup is the light, a lead from a power source that is switched on and off, the sensor wires, and a ground wire.  It is simple and no junction box is needed.  I simply solder everything together into a wiring harness.

The light does what is intended.  It tells me if my ignition curve is compatible with the gasoline I am using.  The engine does not knock on unleaded ethanol free premium.  It also does not knock on unleaded 10% ethanol regular.  There is a noticeable drop in performance when I use the gasahol.

The ignition curve is Triumph Performance Stage III.  This is their general-purpose hot street and racing curve.  It works well with the big motor.         

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1247 on: June 24, 2013, 12:56:39 AM »
I hooked up a hose to the oil filler cap and noticed there is air coming out of the crankcase when the engine runs.  My goal is to bleed off this pressure so the pistons will have an easier time going up and down.  This winter I made an engine breather and an oil catch tank.  The catch tank fills up with oil after about five miles of riding.  Right now I am trying out different methods of getting the oil out of the air leaving the crankcase.   

Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1248 on: June 24, 2013, 04:37:20 AM »
Bo, wear a white suit , that will guarantee that none of the oil gets away.
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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1249 on: June 24, 2013, 05:17:03 AM »
Bo,
Wet or dry sump?  Can you tap into cam cover? There should not be a lot of oil mist there.  Or build a stand pipe to get away from the turbulent crankcase mist.  Then use a reed valve on the breather to prevent air going back in.  This will only work if all other breather points are sealed.
Tom
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1250 on: June 24, 2013, 07:43:44 PM »
Your 360-degree crank has now been 'improved' to pump more air with the larger pistons...........

+1 with Tom on the stand-pipe and breather.

Also, check your oil........some brands foam more than others.

I have White Leathers and no oil leaks on my Triumph ......... YET :lol:

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1251 on: June 25, 2013, 12:20:00 AM »
It's horrible.  The savage, brutal, and catty remarks from the neighborhood peanut gallery up here about a Triumph leaking oil.

The original breather is on the work bench in the photo.  The next one shows it installed.     

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1252 on: June 25, 2013, 12:24:10 AM »
The line from the primary is the original Triumph breather.  It is no problem.  The other one I installed is.  The 3/8-inch line was changed to a 7/16 line and it was looped over the carb intake.  This helped a little bit.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1253 on: June 25, 2013, 12:28:54 AM »
This little expansion tank I am making fits in the vertical part of the breather line.  Hopefully the wind will expand and slow in the tank and the oil will drop out.  It has clear sides so I can see what happens inside.  Hopefully this will work.

Offline Cereal KLR

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1254 on: June 25, 2013, 08:45:58 AM »
Nice 12v vacuum pumps come up in the drag bike section of ebay every now and then but they are pricey. I would still like to try one as they they do help.
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline JimL

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1255 on: June 25, 2013, 12:57:28 PM »
There is a lot going on with crankcase pressure.  My wife has pics of her grandpa, sitting on his RFD (rural free delivery) Silent Gray Fellow.  The earliest pics show the bike just as Harley built it, when it was new.  Within a few years it had grown some mods, including a BIG canister that looks like it collects the blowby and oil capture.  This was back around 1914 or so.  Nothing new under the sun, as Dad used to say.

Today, the manufacturers (pushed by government) are extending oil change cycles.  The newer longer stroke fours are showing up with ports through the crankshaft web area of the block, directly under the bottom of the bores.  Some have large, tuned oil separation chambers in the side of the block, to add volume in the oil recovery area.  An important point is the tuning of that chamber for its MOST used engine rpm range.  Continuous high rpm operation, with these techniques, can exacerbate oil consumption.  Few customers have the patience to flog their daily driver hard enough to experience this.

With low tension Dykes ring packs, crankcase pressure balance has some effect on how quickly those low tension rings can seal on the compression stroke.  I have seen misbuilt injection molded fittings that effectively sealed the crankcase (due to closing the crankcase air lines connected to the intake tract, before the throttle).  The symptoms were mostly noticed at idle, with whistling crankshaft seals and slightly unstable idle.

Those low tension Dykes rings were showing up around 1980, in the new cars I worked on.  They became possible due to improvements in the oil control ring and the attendant oil distribution ports in that land.  Cylinder oiling is the job of the intake stroke and that oil ring control design.  I was told at the time that low throttle operation (idle or decel) was the hardest part of ring seal with low tension rings.

I didnt quite believe that until the Igniter recalls of 1983.  The timing was going into electronic advance at idle, so the ECU would pull back idle valve opening to slow the engine, and we were getting oil pooled in the dead catalytic converters!  A new Igniter, new cat, and the weird oiling issue faded away.

I've always suspected that part of the early Honda success story was engines that held oil better than most brands.  They enjoyed huge crankcase volume, compared to something like my '69 T120 Bonneville, because the clutch and trans could live on engine oil and share that huge chamber capacity to pump into.  My CX based engines have giant caves for a crankcase, and I run a 5" piece of plain hose out of the factory crank vent chamber at the end of the crankshaft.  So far, very little oil out of that simple hose.  The earlier versions of this engine had dual vent chambers adjacent to each pushrod passage in the heads.  They had twice the hose and much more volume in those chambers.  And they leaked oil all over the engines.

Mysteries abound. :|

Regards, JimL

Offline Jon

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1256 on: June 25, 2013, 05:36:05 PM »
If your building an expansion pot for your breather hose I've had a bit of success filling them with the coarse stainless pot scourers Bo.
The constant changing direction of the air/oil mist suspension helps drop the oil out and it clings to the scourer pad letting it run back into the motor when stopped.
Similar to the oil bath air cleaners used on older industrial and earthmoving equipment.

Cheers
jon
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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1257 on: June 25, 2013, 08:19:09 PM »
Bo,
Do you have a one-way valve before the crankcase breather enters your "expansion pot?"  You mentioned the original Triumph breather.  Does it have a one-way valve? 
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Cereal KLR

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1258 on: June 25, 2013, 11:09:48 PM »
The original breather line goes into the air box. My Thruxton did not have any PCV type valve.
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1259 on: June 26, 2013, 12:48:01 AM »
Thanks for the help with this.  A few years ago Triumph Performance told me I might need a breather with this set up.  It went on the valve cover.  Last night I rooted around and found a valve cover in my parts hoard.  I forgot I had it.  Now I will give them a call.

This British Racing Green land speed record holder does not have a breather www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23051252.