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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 703948 times)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1140 on: April 03, 2013, 12:57:53 AM »

This is confusing and I am getting expert opinions that are all quite different.  I need to figure out my own path through this mess.  It seems that fuels are somewhat use-specific.  In other words, they are blended to be optimal for one type of use and might not be the best for others.  The ERC blends sold at B'ville are their best attempts at making a LSR race fuel and ERC knows what they are about.  The bike runs good on MULB or 110K so they will be my bench marks.  My plan is to jet and time the bike this year for the more commonly available Sunoco gas.  The Sunoco blend will be similar to the ERC blend so I can use either one depending on availability. 

The leaded gas I have figured out.  ERC 110K and Sunoco Standard are similar and Sunoco says their gas will give good convective cooling like the ERC blend.  Both have almost the same specific gravity so the jetting that works for one should be OK for the other.

The unleaded gas is more tricky.  ERC says their MULB gives good convective cooling.  The ERC MULB specs are not on the US website.  I asked for a copy from the Western Australia ERC distributor.
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1141 on: April 03, 2013, 10:04:22 PM »

A lot of folks gave me good advice on this gasoline issue.  Rick at ERC and Kerry at Sunoco were especially helpful.  This is what I learned.

Most motor sports have acceleration and deceleration.  Quick deceleration demands a fuel that is formulated to do that.  Deceleration allows the engine to cool.  LSR is different.  Rapid acceleration is important, however, it is not as critical as with other motorsports.  Dealing with combustion heat from very long full throttle runs is a BIG issue - especially for air cooled engines.  Elevation is a factor too.  NA motors will work harder at Gairdner than at B'ville.

The racing fuel experts were unanimous in recommending leaded for this bike.  I asked about the octane and mentioned it seems to be too much.  One expert recommended a gas with even more lead than 100K or Standard.  The reasons stated for leaded were:  I will need the octane to prevent detonation in the air cooled engine, the lead is a good lubricant for the valves, and the advantages of convective cooling.  None of the manufacturer experts had the slightest bit of enthusiasm for recommending unleaded.  I was worried that leaded would be hard to find.  There will be plenty of vehicles that use it, I was assured, and it will be available.

Some inner voice told me to do some deep thinking and research on fuel.  I am glad that I did.  It saved me a lot of money and also, I won't win anything if the motor runs real strong for 30 seconds and blows apart.   
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1142 on: April 06, 2013, 09:48:43 PM »

The head gasket I bought from Triumph Performance was put on the engine, the head bolts were tightened down, and I saw that I installed a piston backwards.  I took the engine apart, had the crank balanced, and put it back together again with the pistons correct.  To be safe, I had the head gasket annealed.  There is a place in town where they have blank white ceramic dinner plates, cups, etc.  Folks put different glazes on them and the store bakes the glaze onto the plates in kilns.  I gave the lady-in-charge a $5 bill and the head gasket.  She put it in the furnace and annealed it.  I said:  put it in the furnace, heat it to 1100 degrees, hold for 20 minutes, and let the gasket cool down with the oven.

Why let it cool down in the oven?  Copper can be quenched or slow cooled after heating.  It was more convenient for her to let it cool in the oven.  She programmed the oven to do the heat cycle at night when the shop was closed.

Why 1100 degrees F for 20 minutes?  Type "The Annealing of Cold-Rolled Copper" in a search engine.  A link will come up to Volume 49, Page 761 of the "Transactions of the American Institute of Mining Engineers" August 1914 publication.  The article explains how that temperature and duration were determined with all sorts of other interesting stuff.

Why not use a torch?  Temperature control is important to avoid embrittlement.  The oven gives a lot more precision.  The article shows what happens when the metal gets too hot.


* 2013 Build 231.JPG (227.21 KB, 800x465 - viewed 143 times.)
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tauruck
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« Reply #1143 on: April 06, 2013, 10:06:54 PM »

Nice work Bo. That Trump is really getting special attention. Detail is what counts. When are you going to run the motor?.
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Cereal KLR
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« Reply #1144 on: April 07, 2013, 02:06:37 PM »

Hopefully Bo will be at BUB this year, I have got to meet him and see this build.
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« Reply #1145 on: April 07, 2013, 03:20:21 PM »

Bo, you really go into detail. If there was an award on the forum for extracting the last drop of power from a motor it would have to to you. I'm getting schooled here big time. I admire and respect the way you go about your racing. You inspire me. cheers
Yes, that goes for me also. Great rule model I am trying to learn from. I am copying the way you do the build sheet, calculations and diagrams, very helpful!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 03:22:58 PM by charlie101 » Logged
wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1146 on: April 07, 2013, 11:46:57 PM »

The cylinder head is in Calif where they are putting in the shim under bucket cam followers.  Everything else is ready to go.

A couple of years ago I was going to hang up the leathers.  An Aprilia Tuono beat me pretty hard in the twin cylinder class.  I figured it was all over for the Triumph.  Back before the recession hit I ordered and paid for a set of 994cc cylinders.  These are custom made parts and it takes awhile to get them done.  They arrived and I figured, what the heck, I will make one last engine and go for it.  The problem is, before the recession I had a lot more money for this kind of thing.  Now I really need to think about things out before I do them. 
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1147 on: April 08, 2013, 11:23:43 PM »

This is what I learned about gasoline.  I will post it before I forget it.  Gasolines come in a range of specific gravities (SG) with most between 0.7 and 0.8.  That is a lot of variance.  The SG influences how high the float floats in the float bowl.  It also influences how readily the fuel will flow up through the jets.  That is something to consider when switching fuels.  The float height and jetting might need to be adjusted for the change in gasoline SG.  Conversely, using a gasoline with the same SG would reduce the need for changes.

Gasoline is made of hydrocarbon chains of various length and shapes.  Gasolines with a large fraction of the shorter and lighter molecules have lower specific gravities.  They burn quicker.  The result is the burn speed is sorta related to the SG.  A change in specific gravity between two gasolines that affects burn speeds would also mean the spark advance curve developed for one would not work with the other.

Octane is needed to maintain controlled combustion.  It does not necessarily affect burn speed.  There are fast burning high octane gasolines as well as slow burning ones.  Air cooled engines used in LSR generally need more octane than water cooled ones, I was told.

The distillation curve shows the temperatures required to vaporize fractions of the gasoline.  This has a lot to do with cold temperature starting, driveability, and other characteristics.  The gasolines that require a lot of heat to vaporize also take a lot of heat out of the intake system when they vaporize.  That is nice for an engine that needs some extra cooling of the valves and combustion chambers.  There are other factors to consider.  The oxygen content is important, too.  Larger jets are required for highly oxygenated fuels.  Lead has lubrication properties that can be a benefit for some engines.  Conversations with experts are a good idea.  The above are some topics to discuss.

The goal for me was to find a good gasoline choice for the Triumph that is widely available in AUS.  I also wanted the choices to work with the spark advance curve and jetting I develop in Oregon.  The three gasolines for the Triumph are all leaded with real close to 0.73 SG and having high heats of vaporization.  It is likely either will work with no changes to jetting or timing.  A Busa, R1000 BMW, or a Harley would all need different fuels.  This is the important thing, and it is to match the fuel to the bike.     

   

 

 
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tauruck
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« Reply #1148 on: April 08, 2013, 11:29:49 PM »

Thanks Bo. I always learn a lot from your posts. cheers
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1149 on: April 09, 2013, 11:48:01 PM »

My youngest boy, Werner, was the one who raced at BUB.  He wanted to get a truck.  I told him all about the merits of two wheel drive in-line fours.  The apogee of automotive engineering.  Then I reminded him he did not have a job and suggested he wait awhile.  He listened carefully, then he spent his inheritance and bought this.  It is a four wheel drive 1990 S-10 with a huge V-6 engine.  It is from the era before vehicles became politically correct.  No anti skid or anti lock anything.  Burnouts and brake slides are no problem.  Chevy made a turbo version for two years.  Insane.

He ran into something.  I am not sure about the details and I never did get the full story.  After that he did not drive it very much.  He joined the Marines and left the truck here.  Slowly I have been working on it so I can sell it.  Note the fixed front end with the new bumper.  Every week I take it out for a little blast around the 'hood to keep fresh fuel in the carb.  Every time something falls off or breaks.  These old trucks are a lot of fun.  I can see why he bought it.           


* Boyz Truk.JPG (229.07 KB, 800x533 - viewed 159 times.)
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #1150 on: April 10, 2013, 09:57:27 AM »

Isn't it fun having something that's not politically correct.  grin grin grin

Pete
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1151 on: April 11, 2013, 10:55:26 PM »

It sure is, Pete.  A person needs two cars.  One that is practical and another one for fun.  Werner is coming back on leave for a week after boot camp.  He can drive it around.  I will sell it after that.  There is no way this thing will run all of the way from Oregon to Camp Pendleton so he wants to sell it.

Making some rear set foot pegs is the next job.  It is easier to lay down on the bike if one's feets are toward the back.  3/8-thick aluminum plate has worked well for the brackets in the past.  The local supplier I use sells two aluminum alloys by the inch.  (I need to find someone who sells it by the inch with a wider selection.)  One alloy I use a lot is 6061 T6.  It is a good all purpose alloy.  The other I use occasionally is 2024 T4.  It is an aircraft alloy.

There are three stress properties I look at.  These brackets are subject to cyclic loading so I look at fatigue.  The Endurance Limit is the highest stress the sample will withstand when it is subjected to 500,000,000 load cycles in the testing machine.  The Endurance Stresses are 14 KSI for 6061 T6 and 20 KSI 2024 T4.  The 2024 is a better choice based on fatigue resistance.

The brackets will hold weight and another important stress is yield.  This is the maximum stress the metal can withstand and deflect back to its original shape.  It is not permanently bent.  The yield stress is 40 KSI for the 6061 T6 and 47 KSI for the 2024 T4.  The 2024 has more yield strength.

The last stress property is tensile stress.  This is the stress at which the metal sample breaks.  I want it to be substantially higher than the yield stress.  Let's say the two are close to the same.  The bracket will bend slightly under a heavy load and then suddenly it will break.  That is not good.  It is better if it bends a lot before it breaks.  The 6061 T6 tensile stress is 45 KSI and this is 12.5% higher than the yield stress.  The 2024 T4 tensile stress is 68 KSI and this is 44% higher than the yield stress.  Clearly, the 2024 T4 is less brittle than the 6061 T6.

The Comparative Characteristics chart shows that 2024 T4 is more susceptible to corrosion than 6061 T6 and it is harder to weld.

The 2024 T4 alloy is what I bought and I will paint it to prevent corrosion.  It is a better choice for this application.  It is also what I would use for triple clamps.


* 2013 Build 232.jpg (161.55 KB, 753x1024 - viewed 122 times.)

* 2013 Build 233.jpg (216.1 KB, 741x1024 - viewed 139 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1152 on: April 12, 2013, 06:41:16 PM »

The can of oxygenated gas was traded in for a can of Standard.  The plan is to jet the bike and set the ignition advance curve for this fuel in Beaverton, Oregon at elev 150.  These setting should be good for VP110, ERC110K, or Sunoco Standard here in the US at the airport races.  They should work at Gairner for Sunoco Standard, ERC110K, or BP100.  They do not have VP110 in AUS.  Sunoco is available in Europe so I can use these settings on the seafront at Brighton, the beach at Pendine, or on the bowl at Nardo.

These jet changes are recommended by SUDCO as a rule of thumb for Keihin FCR's:  drop the mains one size for every 2,000 feet and the pilots one size for every 4,000 feet elevation increase.  These revised setting should be close or OK for ERC110K at BUB or ERC110K, Sunoco Standard, or VP110 at Speedweek, World of Speed, etc.  As you can see, I have no brand preference in fuel.  I just want to get the stuff anywhere I go and to not need to rejet the bike.  That's the big plan, anyhow.

Odds and ends for machine tooling I order from Lost Creek Machine, Inc in Ottawa, Illinois.  They sent me a newsletter.  Ten lathes for sale between $995 and $2,995.  Fourteen vertical mills.  All sorts of other used machines and things.  An alternative to buying Chinese.   


* 2013 Build 234.JPG (171.99 KB, 629x600 - viewed 191 times.)
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tauruck
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« Reply #1153 on: April 12, 2013, 10:58:34 PM »

Bo, you've done yor research. I learn new things on every post. Do you have a set of jet drills?. I hear you on buying Chinese. I won't touch the stuff but my ex business partner bought two tools that I'm stuck with. Both are junk.
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Kiwi Paul
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« Reply #1154 on: April 14, 2013, 10:16:10 PM »

Bo--Does Lost Creek Machine ever show Metalshaping equipment for Sale?
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