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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1014413 times)

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Offline Cereal KLR

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1065 on: February 08, 2013, 10:01:28 PM »
You should be very happy with Kibblewhites work,they made my Sporty motor sing. Triumph wants $1200 smacks for a new head so thats great you were able to fit fresh guides. I will keep this in my memory bank.

Will you be running Triumph TOR mufflers? The stock stuff can`t flow very well.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 10:08:23 PM by Cereal KLR »
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1066 on: February 11, 2013, 10:22:10 PM »
The Triumph off-road mufflers are what I use on the street when the OEM Triumph headers.  They are reasonably quiet with not much back pressure.

The latest (February 2013) issue of "The Horse - Backstreet Choppers" has an excellent article by an expert tuner working with a Sportster.  He got 110 rear wheel hp out of the thing with one of the flattest torque curves I have seen.  It was real sensitive to changes in ignition timing.  He knows what he is about - the build was not very radical and within the grasp of most of us.

The 304 stainless was machinable.  Tapping the bungs was a real problem.  It took major twisting force.  I had to lube the tap with anti-sisze to keep it from chattering and that did not work very well.  I was using a new tap, too.  Has anyone had success with annealing this stuff before machining it?  If so, how is it done? 

Offline Freud

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1067 on: February 14, 2013, 12:16:07 PM »
Don't let any information about a Sportster contaminate your Trumpet.

FREUD
Since '63

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1068 on: February 14, 2013, 03:55:55 PM »
The Triumph off-road mufflers are what I use on the street when the OEM Triumph headers.  They are reasonably quiet with not much back pressure.

The latest (February 2013) issue of "The Horse - Backstreet Choppers" has an excellent article by an expert tuner working with a Sportster.  He got 110 rear wheel hp out of the thing with one of the flattest torque curves I have seen.  It was real sensitive to changes in ignition timing.  He knows what he is about - the build was not very radical and within the grasp of most of us.

The 304 stainless was machinable.  Tapping the bungs was a real problem.  It took major twisting force.  I had to lube the tap with anti-sisze to keep it from chattering and that did not work very well.  I was using a new tap, too.  Has anyone had success with annealing this stuff before machining it?  If so, how is it done? 
PM sent on the tapping.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1069 on: February 14, 2013, 10:34:51 PM »
Hi Freud.  I guess, as a fellow Triumph Bonneville rider, you are concerned about this.  Not to worry.  Everything on the bike is either original Triumph or racing parts made for Triumphs.  We will see you on Saturday night.

   

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1070 on: February 17, 2013, 12:37:25 PM »
The reunion sure was nice.  Freud does the work every year to make that happen and he does a good job.

Rosie found this on the internet.  http://screen.yahoo.com/motorcycle-ridge-riding-084000429.html

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1071 on: February 17, 2013, 10:11:53 PM »
I watched that clip. Insane.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1072 on: February 18, 2013, 11:23:31 AM »
I did that ridge riding once...and I went over the edge and down the slope.  I could not get the bike back on the ridge, get it upright, climb back on the seat, and get going.  It was impossible and I was alone.  I had to carve a tiny trail along the ridge about two feet down from the top with a rock and stick.  Then flipped the bike around and rolled it back to where I started.  The bike was on the little trail and I was along side it on the ridge walking on my knees.  Never again.  Ridges are for goats.  That is why I ride that little Yamaha TT-225.  It is small and light and I can get out of trouble.

The local machinist who did the swing arm extension welded on the bungs.  The bung-pipe joints should not leak air so they are not tacked on.  These are welded all of the way around using tig.  The goal is to set the mixture on the dyno and to also get exhaust gas temperature.  I will have traces for power, mixture, and EGT from the dyno.

The bungs shrunk when they were welded on and I had to retap them.  It was no big deal.  It is something to consider when this work is done.           

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1073 on: February 19, 2013, 09:22:44 PM »
Yesterday I was putting the head on the engine and I lubed up the cams.  One step in the assembly process is to rotate the crankshaft four revolutions before installing the cam chain tensioner.  The grease on the tappet adjusting shim tells a story.  The cam lobe is pushing on the edge of the shim when it rotates and just starts to lift the valve.  These tappet buckets have the shims on the top and lots of people use them with these cams.  I did for several years.  A problem with this setup is the shims can be spit out at high rpm.  I kept my target rpm at 7,500 and this helped to assure the shims would stay put.

This year I am very serious about speed and the intake and exhaust systems are tuned for an 8,000 rpm target.  This is a 500 rpm increase.  Some calculations show this higher rpm results in a 16% increase in the inertial force that will try to pull the shims out.  In the past the shims had an average thickness of 2.5mm.  The new valves are set up with shims having a 3.1 mm average thickness.  This is a 24% mass increase with a proportional increase in the inertial force.  In total, the forces trying to yank out the shims will be 41% more than before.

Tonight I am boxing up the head and sending it back down to get the shim-under-bucket kit fitted.  They need to pull out all of the valves, weld some stellite on the tips to make them longer, and to assemble and shim the whole thing.  A smart guy would have figured all of this out before sending it down the first time.   

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1074 on: February 20, 2013, 12:28:20 AM »
Tonight I am boxing up the head and sending it back down to get the shim-under-bucket kit fitted.  They need to pull out all of the valves, weld some stellite on the tips to make them longer, and to assemble and shim the whole thing.  A smart guy would have figured all of this out before sending it down the first time. 

Walrus,

Must they weld the tips of the valves?   If there is a minimum of .100" (~2.5mm), from the top of the valve to the top of the keeper groove, a "Cosworth" style, "top hat" or "button" shim could be used under a "flat" top tappet follower.   I have shims up to 3.5mm thickness for 9/32 (7mm) valve stem dia.   What is your valve stem diameter?   There must be shims & buckets that will work without stellite welding the valve tips.  Seems like a make work wank, IMO.   Some shim must be used to allow valve adjustment, I can't imagine that the only adjustment is to grind the valve tip.

BTW, you are right about spitting out the flat shims @ high(er) rpm's.   My experience is that the heavier/thicker they are, about 8000rpm is the safe limit.   Had to modify the standard Cosworth Chevys (Vega engine) for the full race Cosworth Ford (DFV/BDG) setup, to solve that problem.
 :cheers:
Fordboy
Science, NOT Magic . . . .

I used to be a people person.  But people changed that relationship.

"There is nothing permanent except change."    Heraclitus

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."     Albert Einstein

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1075 on: February 20, 2013, 06:14:41 AM »
Bo, you're still a smart guy in my book. Things happen for a reason. You'll be Ok. Glad I don't have to deal with shims.

Offline Cereal KLR

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1076 on: February 20, 2013, 09:57:22 PM »
Just a FYI that came to me when looking over your cyl head. My motor is an 2004 vintage and when I pulled it apart the cam tower bearing bolts seemed soft and the edges deformed when removed. I replaced all fasteners on re assembly and Triumph had changed the material to a light almost chrome finish. These are much better and I have had the cams out several times now without any change to the fastener.

Their part # is T3331299 :SCREW,PAN/HD ,TX,M6 *1*4       List is $1.64 each.
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1077 on: February 22, 2013, 12:14:34 AM »
Fordboy, you might be right.  I do not have anything to look at or measure.  The head went south Tuesday morning and the machinist is giving me a good price for doing the work.  I remember your advice that there are several ways to get the intake flow the engine needs, cams, porting, and/or bigger intake valves.  My advice to anyone building one of these engines is to use a standard Triumph 865cc exhaust cam, a standard Triumph 790c intake cam, a good multi angle valve job, a street port job, and bigger intake valves if PipeMax indicates they are needed.  This will give good flow without the many and expensive mods for the hotter cams.  Now I have so much money tied up in the cylinder head that I will buy an other used one in good condition for the street and use this one for racing, only.

Cereal, thanks for the advice.  I will order some.

The indexing head seemed to be a dumb purchase.  I do not have a mill.  I need some brass plugs for the bungs with fine pitch metric threads.  Chances of finding some in this backwater town are zip, so I turned up some on the lathe and figured out how to mill the flats on the drill press with the indexing head.  The setup works great.  Now the index head is starting to pay for itself. 


Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1078 on: February 22, 2013, 09:40:44 PM »
The plugs.

This build diary is going to slow down for awhile.  I thought the cylinder head would be in a lot better shape than it was and I used up all of the money I saved to go to AUS to get the engine together.  There is an opportunity to put in a lot of overtime at the job and I took it.  This will get me the money for AUS and maybe enough to go to BUB this year.  Not much free time will be available for a few months to build the bike.     

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1079 on: February 23, 2013, 12:23:37 AM »
You did a nice job on those plugs. In these uncertain times overtime is a bonus.