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Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1014424 times)

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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1050 on: February 03, 2013, 12:50:12 AM »
This year will be the last chance for me to get back the partially streamlined world record.  I am going to run for it if I can find the money for the entry fee.  Two back-to-back runs over 160 mph are what I need to do.  The bike consistently ran 131+ with the old engine so I need to get 29 mph with maybe 10 more horsepower.  Success will require some good salt, a nice tuck, and lots of devine intervention.

The FIM requires us older folks to take and pass a cardiac stress test and electroechocardiagram.  The old doctor I had for years would look at the test results, groan and shake his head, give me a long lecture about lifestyle improvement, and finally sign off on the paperwork.  He moved on to internal medicine as a specialty and now I have a new young doctor.  He is nice enough, smart, and he takes things pretty seriously.  This is scary.  Now, I guess, I will actually need to get in shape.  Oh, what agony!  It looks like I have four months to do it and I started three days ago.  The old walrus needs to transform himself into a sleek barracuda.

Offline Duck-Stew

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1051 on: February 04, 2013, 08:19:57 AM »
Best of luck on your transformation, Wobbly Barracuda!

(Which doesn't sound quite right...  Perhaps time for a new screen name.) :-D
Team UnorthoDUX

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1052 on: February 04, 2013, 08:31:08 AM »
How about "Rooster Fish" or Yellow Fin Tuna?. They're both fast. :evil:

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1053 on: February 04, 2013, 06:10:53 PM »
Go Barracuda Bo!
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1054 on: February 04, 2013, 07:07:54 PM »
Less food intake = Less $$$.......in theory.  The good food actually costs more per ounce :x

I borrowed a set of leathers and had to loose 15 lbs. to squeeze into them..........Maybe that will work for you 8-) 8-) 8-) :lol: :lol: :lol:
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1055 on: February 04, 2013, 09:50:00 PM »
My alias won't change.  My kids say I will look like a walrus no matter how much weight I lose.

The cylinder head is done.  It is a double overhead cam engine with four valves per cylinder.  There are no rocker arms.  The cams push down on inverted buckets with adjustment shims on them.  The valves tips, collets, keepers, and springs are inside the inverted buckets.  It is similar to most all modern bike engines.

The standard Triumph valve springs were used with high lift cams.  The springs buckled sideways at full compression and this pushed on the buckets and in turn, the buckets pushed sideways on the bores they slide in.  Worn bucket bores = new cylinder head needed = major outlay of $.  I was worried about this so I sent the head, cams, etc. to the best person I could find.  That is Mike Perry at Kibblewhite in Pacifica, California.  They know a lot about these modern Triumphs.  Only one bore was scuffed from the sideways movement and they were able to salvage it.  The guides were worn loose and the valve heads, too, from all of the lateral shoving at full compression.  This hurt performance.   Racing springs are installed as part of this rebuild.  I prefer steel spring keepers.  They are not available so they used the titanium ones that are.  Lesson 1:  always use racing springs with a racing cam.

Triumph does not make replacement valve guides.  They say to buy a new cylinder head if the guides are worn.  Kibblewhite pushed out my worn guides, miked the holes, made new ones, and honed them to fit the valve stems, exactly.  Lesson two, don't toss a worn head when the guides are worn.  It can be saved.

The guides and valves do not get much lubricant.  There are oil seals to keep the oil from going down the guides.  It is important that the valves and guides are compatible metals.  I did not use Triumph exhaust valves for this reason and I used Kibblewhite valves instead.  They developed their valves and guide metal to work together without a lot of wear.

The intake valves are 2mm oversize to give better flow for the 994 cc engine.  Kibblewhite removed the old valve seats, made up some new oversize ones, installed them, made up some bigger intake valves, and installed them, too.  They also did a multi angle valve job and matched the intake ports to the bigger seats.

A problem with these engines is the valves receding in the cylinder head as they wear and as valve jobs are done.  Soon enough, the adjustment shims that are needed are thinner than they make.  Kibblewhite shortened each valve as needed so I could use larger shims to start with and I would have the ability to use thinner shims later.

The bike continues to use shims on top of the buckets.  This is OK for this street/race motor with an 8,400 rpm red line.  Shim under bucket followers are needed for higher revving motors.

Incidentally, the Triumph valve shims are the same as some old Hondas, Yamahas, and Kakasakis.  New shims are available from these dealers, too.

The only Triumph part of the valve train now is the cylinder head and exhaust valve seats.  This is custom work with a lot of parts made to fit.  It isn't cheap or fast.  Budget 1K per cylinder for similar work and a month or two for turn around time.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1056 on: February 05, 2013, 07:33:07 AM »
That motor is going to fly. That's some serious head work Bo. By the time you're done, there will be no wobble in the Walrus. Great news man. Wish you all the very best.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1057 on: February 05, 2013, 04:40:08 PM »
So far I have not resorted to the professionals with advertising budgets, just the local pros with a LOT of experience and some fancy shop tools.  Did Kibblewhite use their new BEE-HIVE spring design in your application?

Bo.....you better work on your hand-grip strength......just to hold on to all of that new-found power 8-) 8-) 8-)   
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1058 on: February 05, 2013, 10:25:39 PM »
The head is on the UPS truck headed north.  Coming back to daddy.  My best guess without seeing them is they are inner and outer straight rate with different winding directions on each.  No bee hives that I know of.

The 865 motor was tuned pretty tight and the power was focused on the top end of the power band.  It ran fast if the gearing was perfect and I was riding good that day.  The new motor will not be all that much more powerful.  It will have a lot more torque in the upper mid range and a little bit more top end.  That is a guess.  It has not been finished and put on the dyno.

There is a tune for these engines with animalistic power character.  It involves a 10,000 rpm rev limiter, 5mm larger valves throughout, shim under bucket followers, radical cams, some cam follower machine work, thinner piston rings, and a knife-edged crank.  Triumph Performance has it all figured out and they are the experts on it.  The engine I am building should be a good street/race engine that will work with nitrous or something else I am working on. 

I found a pipe welder.  It is the guy that does all the welding for the railroad and who extended my swing arm.  He can do delicate work, too.  I vaguely remember that an exhaust system should be clean inside when it is welded.  I am going to fill the pipes with soap, water, and bolts and shake them until the bolts knock off all of the carbon.         

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1059 on: February 05, 2013, 11:16:33 PM »
Bo, if you like to gamble and you think lady luck is on your side then go ahead and use your old pipes with carbon on the inside and chrome on the outside. There have been times in the past where I've gambled and got away with it. On the other hand if you want a good reliable exhaust system start with new tubing and u-bends and build a proper new system. It will be worth the investment. Trying to fix the system after every couple of runs or gussetting it where it cracks to try and prevent it from cracking again isn't any fun and depending on the availability of welding equipment can be problematic. Guess how I know.

Pete


Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1060 on: February 06, 2013, 08:53:16 AM »
I can't wait to see the parts when you get them back. Peter, do you think a fully equiped pit cart might be the answer for us?.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1061 on: February 08, 2013, 01:10:42 AM »
Pete, I know what you mean about trying to hang on to old stuff longer than it should be used.  That covers my bike, house, tools, clothes, furniture, and everything else.  For years I used some fancy titanium Arrow pipes.  They looked cool.  The bike made less power with them and they contributed to the reversion problem I had.  These pipes are the standard Triumph stainless ones that were made in the Midlands and came with the bike.  The bike makes the most power and has the least reversion with them.  They are strong, well made, and in good shape cause I didn't use them much.  Now I don't care about titanium bling.  I just want speed and lots of it.  The OEM pipes are going back on the bike.  My task is simply to put bungs on them for the EGT and lambda sensors.

This is the head with all of the new parts and the big valves.  Saturday I will drive up to the dealer in Beaverton, borrow their valve shim box, and fit the shims.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1062 on: February 08, 2013, 02:18:03 AM »
That looks like a pro job, that's a nice looking head. I've seen a Ferrari shim box and a printers tray had nothing on it. I'm sure you'll ace it. What gain in HP are you hoping for?

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1063 on: February 08, 2013, 07:49:33 AM »
You shouldn't have any problem if all you're doing is welding in bungs. Fabricating a system from used pipe on the other hand can be problematic. Titanium is a legitimate material for very serious racing efforts but for budget efforts it's probably not a good choice as it's a fairly difficult material to fabricate and once a crack forms, very difficult to repair successfully.

Pete

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1064 on: February 08, 2013, 07:17:28 PM »
Tauruck, the advice given to me by Matt Capri, who developed this setup, is a 10% torque increase.  That would put me in the 90's.

Pete, I will take your advice and use new tubing. 

A lot of people have gone the speeds I am trying to go on partial streamliners with less power.  The weak link in all of this is me.  Last year I was on the RWB course to test the streamlining and there was only one mile to get up to speed before the timed mile.  During the off season I rehearsed in my mind to be aggressive with the throttle from the start within the limits of traction on the salt, to stay focused from the very beginning, to tuck down early, and to bury the tach needle in the red zone before the shirt to fifth.  It worked.  Now I need to remember all of that for next year.  I am scrunched up like Duck Stew is on his Ducati.  It is hard to get down on the tank in a smooth fluid motion without thinking about it and this interrupts my concentration.  My plan is to move my feet back a little bit so it is easier to flop down onto the tank.  Going fast looks easy but it is not.