(Note: LANDRACING.COM donations are not tax deductible)


This is a public forum. The opinions expressed here don't
necessarily reflect the feelings of The Folks That Run The Site (that's us)
unless we explicitly say so, ok?


Author Topic: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners  (Read 1014443 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Cereal KLR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Location: San Mateo, California
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1005 on: January 01, 2013, 09:50:38 PM »
I run an old kawasaki 4 that displaces a bit over 1100cc. Most of the people that drag race them run a vacuum pump to keep some of the pumping loses down.  I keep searching for a cheap one on ebay but they get snapped up quick.
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1006 on: January 01, 2013, 10:19:41 PM »
That pump might be just what I need.  I think I can get one cheap.  This post is related to a number of current topics on the forum.

There were a couple of options I had for building the new motor.  One is to build it as an NA engine with a bumpy cam.  They do make these and to be effective, I need to enlarge all of the valves to 5mm over standard, have some extensive machining done to the head, install a shim-under-bucket kit, knife edge the crank, reprogram the black box to a 9,500 rpm red line (1,100 rpm more than it is now), and retune the intake and exhaust.  The target rpm would be 9,000 with 4,224 fpm average piston speed.  Now it is 7,300 rpm with 3,250 fpm average piston speed.

The 994 cc engine as it will be tuned this year will make horsepower in the mid 90's, hopefully.  It was 84 hp with the old 865 engine in a pretty worn condition.  I am using the same cam in the new motor as I used in the old.  It is bumpy but it is not Mae West.

The same motor I will be running this year, with the big bump cam option, will make maybe, with good tuning, power in the low 100's. A 10 percent increase, at most.  It will be expensive to maintain.  I have a piston wear problem now, and with all those more rpm, things will not be any better.  I makes no sense to spend a lot of money going the high rpm N/A power route.  Lots of cost with not a lot more horses.

This is something I figured out a year ago when I had to make a choice of piston rings:  thin rings for reduced flutter at high rpm, or thicker ones to seal better at lower rpm with high cylinder pressures.  Also, I decided to not knife edge the crank.  Enhanced aspiration was the only route to big speeds I can afford, I figured then, when I ordered the parts to be made.  Everything I am doing now is geared toward this end.  Right now I do not know exactly how I want to do this, a turbo, fuel, spray, or a combination of these?  This is something to keep me busy when I get back from AUS in 2015.

One problem I have is I do not like to blow up engines.  My favorite method is to sneak up to the optimum settings from the safe side.  A big problem on these engines is the timing curve.  It is programmed into the box by people in England.  It is hard to get quick changes this way.  My black box was gone for a few months getting redone.  Also, they do not tell you exactly what they are doing to the curve.

A few minutes ago I found a programmable black box on the internet.  I can program my own advance curve and red line.  Perfect for the enhanced motor tuning.  I can start out a little bit retarded and inch up to the best setting, degree by degree, during a single dyno session.  Things are slowly falling into place. 

Offline Cereal KLR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Location: San Mateo, California
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1007 on: January 02, 2013, 10:02:31 AM »
These guys campaign 115 hp Bonnevilles at the drags. Might be worth an e-mail to see what makes them live longer. Turbo and fuel management would be a benefit on the salt.

http://stabbarps-auto.com/welcome.html
I thought I would die young, but now its too late.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1008 on: January 02, 2013, 08:24:22 PM »
The pictures on their website show some seizures on the gudgeon pin to rod small end bearings with OEM parts.  I had this problem with the original parts, too, only much worse.  The Carrillo rods and Arias pins had no problems.  They looked spiffy on the last tear down.  The gudgeon pin to small end bearing clearances when the Carrillo rods were fitted were 0.00095 on one cylinder and 0.0009 on the other.

Eighty to ninety percent of drag bike horsepower is OK for me.  This is sorta like tuning for endurance racing as compared to road racing.  The engine needs to go the distance without blowing up.

It is hard to compare horsepower between bikes tested on different dynos.  The one we use here is a little stingy.   

Offline tauruck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4924
  • Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1009 on: January 03, 2013, 10:44:15 PM »
Bo, maybe a stingy dyno is a good thing. Nothing worse than going out there thinking you've got more than you do. What oil do you run?.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1010 on: January 03, 2013, 11:59:44 PM »
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 was what I used for years.  They raised their price to what the other premium oils are and changed their formulation.  They lowered the zinc and phosphorous content.  I was worried about this.

The Triumph engine is more similar to European race engines than American motors.  I was looking for an oil that gave proven performance over there in race use.  The Silkolene synthetic was developed from the beginning to provide protection similar to that of zinc and phosphorous using esters instead of metals and it has the racing pedigree, so I switched to their premium 10W-40 synthetic.

Offline tauruck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4924
  • Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1011 on: January 04, 2013, 09:48:35 PM »
Why don't you contact Dave Canitz at Royal Purple. He's a good guy, willing to help and his product works.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1012 on: January 05, 2013, 10:56:00 PM »
My traditional break in oil is a mineral oil to which I add some Red Line break in additive.  I was recently warned against doing this by a local hot rodder.  Some problem with the new oils.  He explained it to me and it went in one ear and out the other.  These is a Royal Purple break in oil shown on their website.  This would be what I need.  It makes more sense than taking chances with a home brew mixture.  Thanks for the suggestion.

This morning I had breakfast with the Triumph riders group and went shopping around Portland for some used machine tooling and a new vise.  Everywhere I went, the places where I could get this stuff in the old days, all were gone.  One shop was still in business and they sold wood working stuff, now.  He knew of one shop that might be able to help me.  I was always aware that we were losing industry.  The extent of the loss is something I am just starting to comprehend.  This country is a paper tiger.  We would lose a war as soon as we ran out of what we have stashed in the arsenal.  There is no industrial capacity to replace it, either the factories, the tooling, or the skilled workers.   

Online manta22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3607
  • Age: 81
  • Location: Tucson, AZ
  • What, me worry?
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1013 on: January 06, 2013, 10:34:21 AM »
Amen, WW.
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1014 on: January 09, 2013, 09:34:50 PM »
The human character that that makes a person accumulate stuff is seldom allied with the ability to get rid of it.  Lots of asking around is paying off.  Little sort of unknown places, except to those in the know, have what I need.  These folks do not advertise much.  Dark, dank, dusty, and funky rooms full of idle, cold and inert tooling.  This Ellis indexing head, with all accessories, including the original instructions and parts list was more than I could resist.  It has a new home now.  My father rationalized buying tooling by saying "its in the family now."  Heck, I cannot argue, a lot of what I have is old stuff that has been with us for generations. 

Offline Koncretekid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1130
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia & Lafayette, Co.
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1015 on: January 12, 2013, 07:30:11 AM »
That's a nice find.  Kinda like finding an old bike in a barn - - it just doesn't happen very often.  It would make a nice addition to my mill-drill (not exactly Bridgeport!) even though I have never used one.  Now you can make your own gear set - - if you have a mill.  Let's see, nice low first gear, and nice close 4th to 5th or whatever your top gears are.  Heck, I think it would even make a nice living room ornament, but I see you have it on the kitchen table; almost as good.   Don't let it out of your sight.
Tom
We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
Life's uncertain - eat dessert first!

Offline Peter Jack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3722
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Calgary, Alberta
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1016 on: January 12, 2013, 08:09:57 AM »
Nice score Bo! Now you can start the search for a small mill or a mill/drill. The next bike you'll be able to build yourself.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1017 on: January 13, 2013, 10:04:02 PM »
Tom, my big project for machinist skool was making a mainshaft high gear gear for my Matchless.  It is the one that fits over the mainshaft, has splines for what we call the countershaft sprocket, and has a gear on it with internal dogs.  It was a real nightmare.  Lots of machines used and figuring.  The teeth were cut on a horizontal mill with a specially shaped cutter and an indexing head.  The internal dogs were something else.  I could not figure out how to cut them with a machine.  I took the gear home and spent a weekend cutting them with a file.  My thinking at the time was it would take me a lifetime me to make a complete transmission.  The whole fiasco made me appreciate the economy of mass production.

Pete, right now I am figuring how to get my broke behind to BUB this year and AUS in 2015.  I might delay retirement for six months or so so I can buy a mill.  A guy needs one.  Life is such a struggle, otherwise.   

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5307
  • Age: 67
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1018 on: January 20, 2013, 10:08:52 PM »
Last night was movie night at the Triumph shop.  They close up shop, move the bikes out of the showroom, set up some tables with food and bunch of chairs.  The usual movie is "zombie chicks on bikes" or something similar.  The "Worlds Fastest Indian" was last night's flick.  I was really emotional seeing it this time.  A lot of the stuff in the movie I have lived.  That was not the case the first time I saw it.

On the way out I picked up a brochure.  That bike sure looks like a Beeza to me.  I almost think I see the crossed rifles on the timing cover.  Any second opinions are appreciated.     

Offline generatorshovel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 407
  • Age: 66
  • Location: Outback Australia
    • http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=556
Re: Team Go Dog, Go! Modified Partial Streamliners
« Reply #1019 on: January 20, 2013, 11:33:32 PM »
That bike sure looks like a Beeza to me.  I almost think I see the crossed rifles on the timing cover.  Any second opinions are appreciated.    

It sure looks like a pre-unit trumpy to me Bo.

Tiny (in OZ)
I would prefer to make horsepower, rather than buy, or hya it, regardless of the difficulties involved , as it would then be MINE