Author Topic: Diesel Truck Discussion  (Read 23203 times)

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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2009, 12:01:38 PM »
Okay, so I'll bite -- what do I do to put in that 50 hp tuneup?  Chip, dyno, other parts, anything?  If I can increase fuel economy with no ill effects -- I'll try it.

We drive the truck to and from town four or five times a week.  That's a 50-mile round trip.  NO "short" trips (a benefit of living way out in the woods).  Trips to Maxton and the Salt are the long trips. 

Will that 50 hp give better economy all the time -- or just on short or just on long trips?  Thanks in advance.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
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Owner of landracing.com

McRat

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2009, 01:37:54 PM »
There are 4 basic ways to tune up a Duramax:

Harness Boxes:  This is products like Edge and Banks.  They plug in under the hood in seconds, and have multiple HP levels.  They intercept signals to the engine, and modify them.  They cannot be detected by GM once you remove them except potentially on the LMM (2008+) engines via stored info in the transmission computer.  They often include a gauge panel.  Priced from $400-$1000.  Lots of them on the used market.

Handheld ECM tuners:  Like PPE, Predator, Bully Dog (I don't endorse BD), these devices plug into your data port, then reflash your factory engine computer.  They have multiple HP levels, up to Absolutely Nuts.  They often include trouble code reading and resetting, and display engine data in real time.  Whether these can be detected by GM after removal is a subject of debate.  LMM's most certainly can be seen after removal.  These can also remove the 96mph speed limiter.  $350-$1200.  I helped develop and carry the PPE brand.

Tuning Tools:  EFILive and similiar.  You (or someone) writes your own tune, then you flash it into the ECM via the data port.  Infinite adjustability and power levels.  Hardcore racers normally are running this.  Best of the best, but not for everyone, it's the coolest tool in my toolbox.  $800 and I write your first tune to your exact specs for your truck.  Cannot be detected by GM except LMM.  It will allow you tune most GM cars and trucks, gas or diesel, from 1997-2009.

Custom ECM's:  You buy the entire engine computer preflashed to your specific needs.  LMM's are still a problem with detection, unless you swap both ECM and TCM computers.  $800-$1000.

For most folk who just tow, harness boxes are probably the easiest and safety route.  I don't carry them.  Lots on the used market as folk end up wanting more HP than they can provide (~125rwhp max gain).

Unlike what most gas drivers are familiar with, when a diesel modification says "50 HP", it's at least 50rwhp (with some exceptions), and is NOT subtle.  You will have zero doubt when you install a 50hp tune, it feels like a .050" nitrous jet.  A +250rwhp tune is absolutely insane and will trash your transmission in short order.  It will often put a 7000lb 4x4 into the 12's.

The mileage is increased via the increased injection timing advance, and most all tunes show similiar improvements.  Even the 250rwhp tunes show mileage gains.  Mileage gains are everywhere EXCEPT when "using" the additional power.  Your right foot controls fueling.  At identical speeds and loads, a tuned truck will use less fuel than an untuned truck.

But be VERY careful.  Many of us (I is one) said that all we wanted is a 50HP tune and we would quit.  Next thing you know, you go nuts.  It's like cocaine, but probably more expensive.  It has caused divorces, bankruptcy, and probably long term mental illness.

If you bring your truck to Bonneville, I can flash a 50hp tune into it for free, so you can see how it runs.




« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 01:54:21 PM by McRat »

McRat

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2009, 02:05:10 PM »
DOH!

Fifth method:  Someone with a tuning tool tunes your truck in person.  $0-$1000.  To remove the tune, you need to either go to GM and get it flashed to stock, or the guy who flashed it.

Offline bak189

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2009, 02:40:18 PM »
"Flashing the Computor"  What Computor???? I got a 1991 Dodge Diesel.....now with over 350.000 miles on it....pulls the race trailer great......modified the exhaust system......up-dated the injectors......worked on the Turbo......get 22 miles to the gallon running solo......18 miles to the gallon with the trailer......Oh, yes,
it has a stick 5 speed trans......it also has a higher Diff. than stock.......been a great truck.......but as usual with Dodge trucks, the power train is outstanding.....the rest is sh@#%^t......speedo failed back in 1995, tryed fixing it several times, gave up and got a hub-meter to keep track or milage....don't need no stinking speedo, got a tach........3 fuel tank sender units todate....cut a hole in the truck bed for easy replacement, cover with plate, simple.......I don't want to bore you with some of the "other" chassis problems.......but as I noted...great power train..............................................................................
Question authority.....always

McRat

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2009, 03:11:19 PM »
"Flashing the Computor"  What Computor???? I got a 1991 Dodge Diesel.....now with over 350.000 miles on it....pulls the race trailer great......modified the exhaust system......up-dated the injectors......worked on the Turbo......get 22 miles to the gallon running solo......18 miles to the gallon with the trailer......Oh, yes,
it has a stick 5 speed trans......it also has a higher Diff. than stock.......been a great truck.......but as usual with Dodge trucks, the power train is outstanding.....the rest is sh@#%^t......speedo failed back in 1995, tryed fixing it several times, gave up and got a hub-meter to keep track or milage....don't need no stinking speedo, got a tach........3 fuel tank sender units todate....cut a hole in the truck bed for easy replacement, cover with plate, simple.......I don't want to bore you with some of the "other" chassis problems.......but as I noted...great power train..............................................................................

Cummins is makes an excellent engine.

I'm not a Dodge guy, but here is how I understand it, there are 3 basic versions:

12v engine (early).  6 individual valve covers.  All mechanical.  Bigger injectors, reworking/adjusting the pump/fuel plate, bigger turbos are the basic power mods.

24v engine (mid years).  One big red valve cover.  VP44 pump is part mechanical, part computer.  Bigger injectors, harness boxes, bigger turbos.  No ECM tuning.

Common Rail (late models).  Has a Bosch CP3 injection pump like a Duramax.  Injectors, and the same kinds of mods as Dmax, but no EFILive (yet).

With the Dmax, you can run the factory turbo up to ~550rwhp and the factory injectors up to 800rwhp.  So turbos and injectors aren't as necessary for power.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 03:14:35 PM by McRat »

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2009, 03:39:42 PM »
In re:  The Cummins 5.9 L diesel engine.  In 1993 I bought a Ford F-700 medium duty truck with the Cummins 12-valve rated at 205 hp (I think it was).  Ford sure wasn't good at making a medium duty truck -- but the engine and transmission were dandy.  We donated the truck to a non-profit when we were done with it -- at about 650,000 miles.  The truck is still running for them, some ten years after we let it go.  The engine was sound, that's for sure.

By the way -- our next trucks used the Caterpillar 3126 electronic motor, and they were okay -- but required more repairs than did the Cummins.

I'll be at Speed Week, so will the truck, and I'll be happy to let you take a run at retuning it.  Thanks for the offer.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

McRat

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2009, 03:56:44 PM »
Sorry out to others that I'm cluttering up an LSR board with diesel talk, but I certainly did notice a large number of diesel tow pickups at events, so it might be good info to them, even though not necessarily racing related. :cheers:

PS - My wife's truck made the cover of Diesel World next month, with a feature article.  It's a tow vehicle.

slopoke

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2009, 01:11:34 AM »
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« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 08:44:49 AM by slopoke »

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Diesel Truck Discussion
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2009, 02:51:33 PM »
Beats me!  If you go back to the beginning you might get a clue.  But a lot of responses have been edited and/or completely deleted.

But if it's about Street Roadsters, it must be important!

Stan Back
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records