Diesel Truck Discussion

[bvillercr]

Steve if you want people to listen to you maybe you should leave Pats' name out of every post you make.  Leave you message how ever you want, and make your plea.  This site is not a pizzing contest.    Troy

[McRat]

Steve,

OK, you win.  But I will stick to the rulebook, no personal jabs on my part.  

There are Production Pickup classes.  They do not allow supercharging.

The rulebooks can be purchased at www.scta-bni.org.  If you would like, stop by my work at 310 South Maple #F, in Corona, and I will supply you with one.

pg 82 - 5.F.4 Diesel Truck -/DT
"This class is intended to represent typical diesel pickup trucks..."

The first line is one that causes debate.  There are Gasoline Full Sized Pickups, and Gasoline Mid/Mini Pickups, and Diesel Pickup Trucks.  Are they all identical and equivalent?  Diesel pickups are a subset of Pickups.  Not all body styles are available as diesel pickups.  There are no "sport truck" bodies with diesels.  I contend a Diesel Pickup is a pickup that was available with a diesel engine.

As far as my truck being a production truck; it would fit in the Production Supercharged rules but those are cars-only.  I have one single turbocharger in the factory location (same brand), the factory frame, engine, axles, transmission, body, driveline.  Internal modifications are permitted in Production.

The informal record for a production diesel pickup was held by Greg Hogue's Project X Dodge at Maxton at 161?  mph.  Bill Heath has run 155? mph at Bonneville with full sized 6.5 Chevrolet Diesel.  There are two more real diesel pickups of similiar designs in process I've heard.

[Steve Cole]

Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

Sorry but there is no slander happening here at all. I've made nothing but truthful statements. There are many, many production diesel sport trucks sold around the world! As a mater of fact a Chevy LUV was made and sold in the US with a diesel! Maybe you should do a little research first! Now as far as production goes on your truck if it came from the factory it was production and any part that did not come from the factory makes it none production or aftermarket. All you have is a body and frame that are production, so its all in how far you want to follow the rules out and at some point you have to stop.

Your still running the GearVendors unit in your driveline, correct? Still running none factory parts in the Allison and the converter isn't factory is it? The motor still running all the factory parts right and the turbo is still a factory VNT? Then that bed cover came as a production part from the factory didn't it? You've modified all these components and that makes them not production any longer.

Like I said before twist it any way you like but your trying to get the rules fit to what your truck is and why would that be?

[jl222]

 
   Steve what production category are you quoting and what page?

   JL222

[McRat]

Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

Sorry but there is no slander happening here at all. I've made nothing but truthful statements. There are many, many production diesel sport trucks sold around the world! As a mater of fact a Chevy LUV was made and sold in the US with a diesel! Maybe you should do a little research first! Now as far as production goes on your truck if it came from the factory it was production and any part that did not come from the factory makes it none production or aftermarket. All you have is a body and frame that are production, so its all in how far you want to follow the rules out and at some point you have to stop.

Your still running the GearVendors unit in your driveline, correct? Still running none factory parts in the Allison and the converter isn't factory is it? The motor still running all the factory parts right and the turbo is still a factory VNT? Then that bed cover came as a production part from the factory didn't it? You've modified all these components and that makes them not production any longer.

Like I said before twist it any way you like but your trying to get the rules fit to what your truck is and why would that be?

Please read the rulebook, it will answer most your questions above.  In particular read the Production sections.  Production doesn't mean box-stock, and there are not SCCA style box stock classes in LSR that I know of.  

Hundreds of folk have checked out my truck, and I'm always happy to show it to people.  Many of the members here have seen it.  It does not have a Gear Vendors unit in it, it has an Allison automatic Transmission that has been tweaked by Inglewood Transmissions (Mike Lovrich) who is the best Allison guy bar none that I've ever met.  If you ever run into trouble with your Allison, you should look him up.  It feeds into an AAM 1150 axle which is the OEM diesel axle assy.  

[McRat]

... your trying to get the rules fit to what your truck is and why would that be?

Here's what I would suggest.  Go to www.scta-bni.org and look to the lower left for the Rule Change form.  Suggest they change /DT to read - "...  represent typical pickup trucks ..." and then there will be no debate.

[Steve Cole]

I'm not looking for any rule changes, you are! Banks ran a Sport Truck with a diesel as have many others in the past. So are you now admitting that Sport Trucks do have diesels? Therefor they meet the "This class is intended to represent typical diesel pickup trucks..."    You seem to have skipped over that now that I've shown you where you are misinformed. Since a Chevy Luv truck came with an Isuzu diesel and many other sport trucks come with diesels and that's the same type truck that Curtis is building it fits the same rules as your truck.

While you may have removed the Gear Vendor unit now it was in the truck at Bonneville. As I've said before twist it however you like but your truck is no more of a factory production truck than the Bank's or Spal effort was or Curtis's effort will be.

[McRat]

I'm not looking for any rule changes, you are! Banks ran a Sport Truck with a diesel as have many others in the past. So are you now admitting that Sport Trucks do have diesels? Therefor they meet the "This class is intended to represent typical diesel pickup trucks..."    You seem to have skipped over that now that I've shown you where you are misinformed. Since a Chevy Luv truck came with an Isuzu diesel and many other sport trucks come with diesels and that's the same type truck that Curtis is building it fits the same rules as your truck.

While you may have removed the Gear Vendor unit now it was in the truck at Bonneville. As I've said before twist it however you like but your truck is no more of a factory production truck than the Bank's or Spal effort was or Curtis's effort will be.

Mr. Cole,

There is not, nor has there ever been a Gear Vendor OD unit or any GV products in my truck(s).  I suggest you apologize.  It was a lot of hard work getting a diesel truck up to 174mph without a GV or axle swap, and I resent you calling me and my crew liars.

[1212FBGS]

i wasnt asking on what computer you were gonna use or where to find it in the rule book.... i was asking on what motor code and what body code you were gonna use cuz i dont think there is one..... and if there is no code, there is no class, and there will be no record..... so again what code do ya smarties think you are gonna put on the entry form?
kent

[Dmax65]

Our truck will be entered as a B/DT. Codes are 104/322 and if parts come together on a LS motor, we will try to run C/BMMP also. Not at Speedweek but at World of Speed.

[1212FBGS]

didnt you say it was gonna be a mini truck? s-10 or something like that?
kent

[McRat]

Curtis,

An excellent source for LS1 family engine tech is www.ls1tech.com .  I believe the LS engines are the best thing ever out of Detroit.  There would be a great deal of interest and support in the LS1 community for an LSR LS1 powered pickup effort.  It's the bassard stepchild with a very bad attitude IMO.  A short stroke LSX block with the right endurance racing parts in it, could be the cat's meow on the long course, IMO.

I like you and respect what you've done in the diesel community, and consider you a true gearhead, but my opinion on DT is not news to you, nor does my opinion carry any weight.  And I've given you my word I will not (nor anyone working with me) protest anything you enter.  This is supposed to be for fun, certainly that is true in my case.

I think all this should be put to bed.  Good luck with the Goodfellow diesel streamliner, and with your own LSR truck.

[Dmax65]

Thanks for the tip on the LS site. I was in Detroit last week and got a great lead on some LS9 blowers and other parts. Will be putting together something at 368ci. I'll keep my nose to the grindstone to get everything done, but should be a great summer either way. Look forward to seeing Casper run and wish you and the team all the best.

[jl222]

Our truck will be entered as a B/DT. Codes are 104/322 and if parts come together on a LS motor, we will try to run C/BMMP also. Not at Speedweek but at World of Speed.

 Ment to quote Steve's post but it seems same team.

 Steve as driveline swaps are allowed in DT why do you think a gear-vendor unit is not? This is also allowed in production category. So answer my question what rulebook and what page and were can I buy a sport truck with a large diesel?
  Just because Banks ran a sport truck at Bville doesn't mean its legal for SCTA-BNI class rules he went over 200 but see no record in diesel classes.

  JL222

 This is good to get sorted out now.


 

[Steve Cole]

You seem to miss my point. The bitch from Pat has been that Curtis's truck is not going to be legal and should not be. I do not care if he runs the Gear Vendors but it's not a production part. So if you want a strict guideline it does not meet Production. Curtis has quoted the numbers above and I've pointed out just one model of a Production Sport Truck that came with a diesel onboard. There are several more if you do a little digging, so it's nothing new. Pat just chooses to ignore the facts. Now are you going to tell me that no one that LSR races ever increases the engine size beyond the OEM factory engine? Isn't that just why you need to pick the class based on engine size? That's the way I read the rules anyways. So when Pat puts in his stroked motor does that mean he is no longer a production diesel............... I think not, just the engine class changes. So with the Stock displacement 6.6L you fall into B/DT. As for Bank's not being in the record book I do not believe they ran at the SCTA event, as I recall it was a FIA event they set there record at.