Author Topic: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211  (Read 57236 times)

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Offline theazoldcrow

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2009, 04:32:13 PM »
 :cheers: Better view also1   Go Sparky, Go!        Crow.
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HotRodV8

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2009, 04:51:40 PM »
SPARKY --

The FWD Too 2 Radical liner sounds different and unique.
Now, I want to say up front I have zero salt experience but I wanted to give you a heads-up about a concern I have. You may already be aware of this concept but I'll throw it out there anyway. I haven't met you yet, but I like your posts.

You said you will sit in front of the axle on the new liner. I don't know the design of your current lakester but I think you sit in a position much farther back or even near the rear axle. The new FWD liner driver position, front of the axle, will give you less "visual steering indicators." Meaning, I don't know if there is a salts flats term for this, you will have less information of what the rear axle is doing, hence your steering reactions.

When the NHRA fuel dragsters switched designs somewhere in the 80's from driver behind the rear axle to driver in front of the motor and in the "center" of the wheelbase most drivers had steering problems, at first.

For example, sitting behind the axle they saw the front wheels drift 10 inches to one side, (the visual indicators) the driver corrected by steering 10 inches to the left to bring the rear axle in line with the front. But, if the driver sits in the middle of the car and it moves 10 inches, the driver only gets "5 inches" of visual information now. No? But the rear was still out by 10 inches.

I'm am stumbling in my lack of salt racing in explaining this concept. What I am saying is in a driver position forward of the front axle, the driver, you, will get even less of what I call those visual indicators of how far "out" the rear end is.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm giving a heads-up that when you switch from a rear driving position to a front of the axle position, (at your speeds) the driver can't naturally react to the steering like in the old car. You have to relearn the steering reaction from the new position.

Thanks for hanging in there for my explanation. I'm going to give you the credit that you already know about this concept. I just wanted to be cautious.


Offline Dr Goggles

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2009, 05:00:54 PM »
That is correct--- would rather be in front than behind all this mess

Wow, all I can say is wow.

Hotrod has a point , thing is I doubt Bill hasn't thought about it and it's a gutsy plan. Gonna have to unlearn a lot of the drive by the seat of the pants stuff........but it makes it easy to get the CoG forward and weight over the driving wheels at the same time.........
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Offline Glen

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2009, 05:52:16 PM »
I agree 100% with hotrodV8, the tail will wag the dog      with out you knowing it. Give it a lot of thought Wm.
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2009, 06:29:29 PM »
I sit with my  feet almost touching the frt axel  my 209" wb Lakester I am going to be on the other side and it will be driving my head will actually be 2" higher than it is now an I will be sitting up slightly straighter.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 06:34:08 PM by SPARKY »
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Offline stratman59

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2009, 06:30:34 PM »
WOW  :-D
Good luck my brother keep us posted

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Offline willieworld

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2009, 06:36:54 PM »
its been done before with great success--------you guys need to give sparky some credit ---go for it   willie buchta
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2009, 07:03:31 PM »
thanks for the support and concerns we will work hard to be safe first fast later
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 07:06:54 PM by SPARKY »
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2009, 07:05:18 PM »
Sparky -

I don't know what kind of street vehicles you've driven in the past, but here's a thought, for what it's worth.

You can get used to the sensation of driving in front of the front axle if you buy yourself or borrow an old Ford snub-nose Econoline, or even a Volkswagen Van.  It's a very peculiar sensation driving in front of the axle, and such a vehicle might help acclimate you to it. 

I had a good friend in High School who had a '63 Econoline.  We rebuilt the front end, and the steering was solid, but even with everything in place and working properly, it was very disorienting trying to keep it between the fence posts.  That said, driving that van made me a better driver, and much more aware of how a car feels up front.

I'm not doubting your driving chops, and I'm certain you'll do it safely.  I expect this 2 II Ratical machine will probably force you to buy yet another hat rack, but until you get it on the lake bed, any similar operating experience might prove helpful.

We worry because we like you.

Chris  :cheers:
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Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2009, 07:23:23 PM »
What most of you miss is not only has this been done before (John Cobb 403 mph, Art Arfons anteater 355 mph & his Cyclopes, some would even say Andy Green @ 763 mph). I would also mention that 660' goes by in 1.5 seconds @ 300 mph, even quicker when going faster.. That's 1/8 mile. And to try to bring the point further, one particular lakester had the driver as far back as he could be (behind the rear wheels) when he crash at over 320 mph. In video footage of the event showed that crash happened so fast that the driver had absolutely no ability to correct for it. It happend in less the three frames of the video tape.

Go for it Sparky, it makes no difference where you sit IMHO.

But it does make a difference in how fast you might go......     8-)
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 07:25:36 PM by Dynoroom »
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Offline robfrey

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2009, 07:32:52 PM »
I think you will be okay with the drivers position. Seems to work for Speed Demon. You will be fine.
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Offline Glen

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2009, 07:33:10 PM »
It has the same feeling as rear steer so I was told.
Glen
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Offline Glen

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2009, 07:34:53 PM »
I think you will be okay with the drivers position. Seems to work for Speed Demon. You will be fine.

The driver in the speed demon sets behind the front wheels not in front.
Glen
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McRat

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2009, 07:37:50 PM »
I think the problem they see in drag cars in keeping the rear tires in the groove.  Go out of the groove, and the tires spin.  Lining up a long wheelbase when sitting near the rear tires is easy.  Not so easy if you are sitting in the middle of a long wheelbase.

For LSR, no matter where you sit, you are looking far off in the distance if you're trying to go straight, so I'd be surprised if it had much effect.  A different perception point might make you start out a bit off-center, but there is no groove to fall out of.  Dunno.  


McRat

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Re: 2 II Ratical ---- aka Too 2 Ratical Liner #211
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2009, 07:48:35 PM »
hijack abort  :-P
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 07:59:11 PM by McRat »