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Author Topic: INDIAN 741 Supercharged...See you in 2011  (Read 196832 times)
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saltwheels262
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Age: 60
Location: cuyahoga county
Posts: 922


LTA 7/2013




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« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2009, 05:10:18 PM »

  the bike looks like it will be a nice piece.
  hope to see you at bub.

franey
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill      
max 10/07 - a/pf   d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf   pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf  ran out of gear
lta  '10 - 158.208  2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
                probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - (1) 185.076 w/#684                                 
          (2) 182.xxx w/20+ mph winds
lta  9/12  -148mph  in 3rd gear w/new #262 ( couldn't
                pull the rear gear in 4 much less 5 )
ohio - (4)  -153.x~in 4th.(+4 @the rear & leaving 1k+
      rpm on the table)

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007
octane
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Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2009, 12:56:35 PM »

I'd try to get more than 2:1 area (methanol vs. gas is about 2.6:1) in the needle & seat, but IIRC the SU top isn't the original part but a Rivera product and I don't know whether there's enough metal to add stuff. Carl's Speed Shop also made their own top, it's not complicated but it's one more thing to do.
Thanks for all this info Jeff!
I've just started looking into maybe installing a larger
float bowl valve, which BTW isn't a needle & seat , but is a grose valve:



Haven't tested it yet for flow-capacity. I understand (?..or do I) from what you're saying that
I'm gonna need 2.6 times the quantity of fuel compared to running on gas.
Now of cause the problem is that I have no idea what the quantity is,
that I multiply by 2.6, what with this being a 600cc Indian with blower,
...a hitherto unknown set-up.
So I guess I'll have to start with a guesstimate of 'way-too-much', and take it from there.

Quote
It may be easier to run a low-press pump instead.
I'm considering making up an SU for a friend's racer with a Facet pump but without a float at all - the usual standpipe in the bowl regulates the fuel level, and the overflow gravities back to the tank.
I don't remember the interchange of 741 vs. Scout rocker arms (i.e., how many types there are), but you can change the intake to exhaust bias and the LSA simultaneously by exchanging rockers.
To compare: all Scout rockers are about 1.093" from the pivot shaft center to the lifter contact pad. If this matches yours, you can probably use a Scout rocker. All the roller lengths are different depending on the ratio, in. or ex., and model but between 1.30" and 1.50" shaft center to roller axle (yes, all the rocker ratios are "negative" - less than 1:1).
Ahh!...I see the possiblities, but a I wrote earlier; I'm not getting into valve-timing re-arranging this time around.

Thanks!


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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2009, 01:06:08 PM »

Thanks fella but I think mine is going to be a bit under powered until the Nitrous goes in but it is a fifteen year old engine.
If you are containering your Indian out why dont you ship the wing out too its a fine looking bike low centre of gravity should be good on the salt.
LOL, yeah that would be great. I'm afraid it would be a bit too much for my though; financially and otherwise.
BTW, one problem with the Wing is that it would be waaay too complicated to
get a decent engine RPM/to rear-wheel ratio, it being a shaft-drive.


Quote
I Have had some crazy quotes for shipping some are coming in at around 3000 GBP and others are as high as 5400 GBP but that is Air freight out and sea freight back and you have a little further to go than myself,It is also getting more expensive to go with the exchange rates not being so good at the moment.
Those figures sounds just crazy. I really hope for some lower figures.
A friend of mine send a Nimbus bike (much heavier than mine) from here to Tokyo for around 1000.-US$
I've just aked for a quote from the company who did it for him. We'll see.
One thing which is a little better for me is the strenght of my local currency (like the UK, we don't do Euro's here)
compared to the US$.

Quote
Anyway good luck I reckon you will be ready in plenty time and its a fantastic build way cool.
Oz
Thanks a lot Oz...and the same to you!


you should market that "flippin' stink"  (as in "goes like flippin stink" here in amerika.  I know I could use some . . .

Ok, I could use a lot.

Here's to flippin' stink and your project!
Thanks David. Flippin' stink rules !
.-)


  the bike looks like it will be a nice piece.
  hope to see you at bub.

franey
Thanks Franey. Hope to see you too.
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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2009, 01:19:21 PM »

Started putting the engine together with nice new, rebuild and modified bits:




...now will ya' look at those con-rods. I do believe I've had mopeds with
rods looking substantially larger...ha ha




...anyway; as I said; they've been Magnaflux tested for cracks and shot-peened
and everyone who know about them tells me not to worry. They are in fact quite strong.




One of several improvements. A modified oil-return system, including this
(non-original) oil-scraper





The original (but rebuild) rollers





Checking for end-float:





Installing pinion-gear with special Indian-tool
(yeah: I know; I had forgot to clean the edges. Did it later.)







« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 01:42:43 PM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2009, 01:42:07 PM »

Camshaft wheels gear (whatever) installed...LOTs of lube (the thick stuff you use when putting together
engines...forgot the English term):





Outer cover (on which later goes the oil-pump) installed:





Now the transmission is one hell of a challenge:



There is no 'cover' ...no way of taking it apart. It's a closed 'box'.
All the thingies you see next to it has to go in through that hole in the box
...and be fitted together while in there. I seriously wished I had Veeeeery thin
fingers with a couple of extra joints..ha ha.

I did do a test, putting everything in there to see if thing were all right.
It really wasn't that difficult......but a fine test of patience and keeping the mind calm...real calm.


A few of the improvements to the tranny:
Closed it of with these home-made plugs to seperate the oil in the box
from the contaminated oil in the clutch/sidecover




by way of making threads in the existing holes




..and plugging them in:





New custom-made bushings with improved lubrication capability
( replacing the originals that had straight groves )



...and running in the opposite direction/rotation, at the other end










« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 02:25:59 PM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2009, 01:50:14 PM »

Doing up low-tech plans for the gear-lever.

We don't do CAD drawings here.

We do DPB drawings here....................................DirtyPizzaBox drawings that is

.-)

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
saltwheels262
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Location: cuyahoga county
Posts: 922


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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2009, 06:43:24 PM »

octane,
 
i see two exhaust systems in the pix.
you may need to add another or modify a set.
check bub rule 2.b .
i like the 2nd set , but tech may not.
if it has already been brought up, that's good; i haven't seen it.

franey
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill      
max 10/07 - a/pf   d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf   pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf  ran out of gear
lta  '10 - 158.208  2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
                probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - (1) 185.076 w/#684                                 
          (2) 182.xxx w/20+ mph winds
lta  9/12  -148mph  in 3rd gear w/new #262 ( couldn't
                pull the rear gear in 4 much less 5 )
ohio - (4)  -153.x~in 4th.(+4 @the rear & leaving 1k+
      rpm on the table)

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007
octane
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Age: 57
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2009, 08:23:43 AM »

Thanks Franey for pointing my attention to this.

Tech. did have initial reservations but I
send a couple of additional pictures and explanation
and the system was deemed OK.
Drew Gatewood who heads tech. inspection at BUB
has been brilliantly helpful sorting out
and helping me answering my silly questions.

Thanks Drew!



Rule 2.B "Exhaust Direction"
"directed away from racing surface"....




...."[away from] rider and rear tire" :





« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 03:51:36 AM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
oz
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Age: 50
Location: Leighton Buzzard GB
Posts: 583


Geordie Power.




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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2009, 01:43:06 PM »

Beauuuutiful.
We now do cad but its only recent,It does help from time to time but its usually ofp (old fag packet that is cigarettes to you across the pond not those who bat for the other side ) sketches with us over here.

Oz
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Newcastle born and bred a City built on Coal and Steel and a people built of stronger stuff
saltwheels262
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Age: 60
Location: cuyahoga county
Posts: 922


LTA 7/2013




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« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2009, 02:15:19 PM »

from the new shots the exhaust looks fine; the angle in
your first post was deceptive.

drew is good at what he does and very timely.

franey



















































 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 02:36:51 PM by saltwheels262 » Logged

bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill      
max 10/07 - a/pf   d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf   pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf  ran out of gear
lta  '10 - 158.208  2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
                probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - (1) 185.076 w/#684                                 
          (2) 182.xxx w/20+ mph winds
lta  9/12  -148mph  in 3rd gear w/new #262 ( couldn't
                pull the rear gear in 4 much less 5 )
ohio - (4)  -153.x~in 4th.(+4 @the rear & leaving 1k+
      rpm on the table)

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007
ironwigwam
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Age: 64
Location: Glenmoore, Pa. Lakeview, MN,
Posts: 125





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« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2009, 07:21:17 PM »

Octane 98, It appears you are using the long spacer on the drive side bearings. I recommend you to use the short inner spacer, same thrust lock an use the seal behind the nut. I am doing that this weekend as we speak. Drew likes to see clean engines as well.
   Rocky
    1957S/VG
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octane
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Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2009, 07:40:57 AM »

Hi Rocky
..I'm not sure if I understand you correctly but;
the drive-side 'neck' is modified to accept modern oil-seal.

You can see the seal here (sorry don't have a better photo right now)



I like clean and oil-tight engines as well !

.-)
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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
ironwigwam
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Posts: 125





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« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2009, 04:40:32 PM »

Octane,
   Yes you are understanding exactly what I was saying except your seal looks different? Is that seal made by Indian Parts Europe?
   Rocky
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octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2009, 11:53:46 AM »

your seal looks different? Is that seal made by Indian Parts Europe?
Yep, that's a special "outer nut with lipped seal", from Indian Parts Europe.
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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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Age: 57
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2009, 12:08:22 PM »

Rocky; here's a better pic;



..in fact it keeps the hot engine-oil from seeping out
into the side-cover.
..or more precisely: the small 'chamber' in the side-cover closest to the crank,
now closed off, as I don't run a generator;




At the clutch/transission end, I use a sealed bearing,




with the sealing towards the transmission, removed.



That together with the plugs showed earlier will
.. keep clutch-debris-contaminated oil from entering the transmission.
.. in the event of a leaking sidecover no oil will be lost in the transmission
.. I can choose to run different types of oil for the transmission and for the clutch/chain
One more thing to keep it this way is that the clutch
has been machined in the center, to accept a modern oil-seal,
sealing the shaft :




Yesterday we assembled the drive-side to see if things lined up
(notice the extended front-sprocket from which the blower-drive will run.
Naaaa:  not the long socket-extension thingy. The thick-wall'ed tube ):






They didn't......



.....so we all started crying and then went home to bed.





« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 01:16:54 PM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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