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Author Topic: INDIAN 741 Supercharged...See you in 2011  (Read 172068 times)
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ironwigwam
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Location: Glenmoore, Pa. Lakeview, MN,
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« Reply #150 on: June 21, 2009, 07:03:21 AM »

Octane,
    Although our economic downturn at my day job has forced me to not to run the streamliner this year, I may still fly out to be with "Rock Salt" and the "Dream Catcher" Bonneville crew for the film. I do have some special cams that my father made for their supercharged scout that I will toss in my bag.
   Rocky
   1957S/VG
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octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #151 on: June 22, 2009, 01:55:05 AM »

Hi Franey
nice motor plate.

what is cubic inches of blower?
It's 300cc = 18.3 cubic inches.
 I run  1 :1.8 ratio crank/blower pulley drive

Quote
how many people coming over with you?
One guy is going with me and then I'll meet up with
5 or 6 guys from the US, and one guy's coming over from U.K.

Quote
whatever your port of entry, i imagine you'll be crossing ohio
on interstate 80 or 90. we are at interstate 77 ,midway to both (actually 5 mins. from 77 and interstate 480) and may be able to put you up. many tools and access to great (&quick) machinists and welder, if needed.
Thanks you very much for your kind offer. That's very generous of you !!!
...but the plan is to fly in to Salt Lake City and also air-cargo the bike to that city.

Thanks
Lars
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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #152 on: June 22, 2009, 02:40:06 AM »

Lars,

  Your project is a pleasure to follow. The photography is outstanding and your work is artfull. I'm going to miss this thread when you are done.
Thanks Harvey !!!

 
Quote
I'd like to make some comments on your supercharger. First is the translation of the type of gears that drive the rotors. The mechanics here call them    helical. Bevel cut gears allow the direction of the shafts to angle in a different direction (most commonally 90 degrees).
Sorry. You're you're right. Thanks for pointing it out.
 As you may know: English is not my mother tongue
and some times I mix up all these technical terms.

 
Quote
It looks like one of the gears is keyed on the rotor. The other one must be a interference fit on the shaft? I have only worked on the Roots type blowers that were used on Detroit Diesels. Both rotors were keyed to the rotors and were adjusted (timed) by moving the gear in or out on the shaft which turns the shaft (lobes) in relation to the the other shaft (lobes). The movement of the gear is positioned by shims ( I think I saw shims in your picture of blower parts). I believe the shims were placed between the bearing and the blower case. This is the accurate way to adjust the lobe clearance easily.

I understand well what you're saying about shimming (in effect moving the one gear(-->shaft-->lobe) is relation to the other
but I'm afraid it doesn't apply to this here blower.
It's actually very crudely put together and apparently consist of parts that must have been
originally made for some other application, and then used for this thing, probably to save
production costs:

..one of the helical gears do have a provision (key-slot(?)) for a woodruff key
but the shaft does not.(!)
..both shafts have a thread ("outside" the gears) but only one (!) of them has a nut to go on the thread


So there is no way to 'adjust' by shimming , the lobe clearance.
One just have to get it right when assembling.


It's little difficult to explain but, I can try:
the 'shims' you see on the photo (at the pulley-end) are used at the other end of the blower
to hold the bearings at the right position in relation to the 'neck' on the shaft
and the body of the blower.



Quote
The clearances were checked by long feeler gauges through the discharge port. You probably don't have any specifications on the clearances but the clearances should be checked both ways with a slight drag on the driven rotor. If you could find a repair manual on a Detroit diesel 3 cylinder/ 51 series engine it may give you some information that would help. It would seem if the clearances were tighter at the discharge area it would pump more pressure. If you would like, I can look for some information here.

Harvey
... no I don't have any spec's, just checked for even clearance with a feeler gauge
and  I have been in contact with another guy who's been rebuilding one of them here thingies
and listened to his experiences.


Thanks !
Lars
« Last Edit: June 22, 2009, 02:55:10 AM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #153 on: June 22, 2009, 02:57:25 AM »

Octane,
    Although our economic downturn at my day job has forced me to not to run the streamliner this year, I may still fly out to be with "Rock Salt" and the "Dream Catcher" Bonneville crew for the film.
That would be great Rocky ! Hope to see you there.

Quote
I do have some special cams that my father made for their supercharged scout that I will toss in my bag.
Fantastic. In what sense are they different from the originals ?
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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
saltwheels262
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Location: cuyahoga county
Posts: 905


LTA 7/2013




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« Reply #154 on: June 22, 2009, 08:35:19 AM »

hope to see you at bonneville.

franey
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill      
max 10/07 - a/pf   d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf   pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf  ran out of gear
lta  '10 - 158.208  2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
                probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - (1) 185.076 w/#684                                 
          (2) 182.xxx w/20+ mph winds
lta  9/12  -148mph  in 3rd gear w/new #262 ( couldn't
                pull the rear gear in 4 much less 5 )
ohio - (4)  -153.x~in 4th.(+4 @the rear & leaving 1k+
      rpm on the table)

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007
Rob
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« Reply #155 on: June 23, 2009, 04:30:37 AM »

Love the Indian Lars,

Just read the build from end to end and loved it. A friend rebuilt a similar (although larger) blower here and had the same bearing issues you did. he too made a ring and machined the case to suit common bearings. Don't sweat your English, it works just fine for me.

Good luck at Bub, the help and comeraderie you receive here is nothing compared to when out on the white stuff.
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ironwigwam
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« Reply #156 on: June 23, 2009, 07:15:30 PM »

Octane, The cams have a longer duration and a special off ramp that my father ground for their supercharged attempt in 53.
    Rocky
   1957S/VG
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ironwigwam
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« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2009, 05:16:31 AM »

Octane,
   I just noticed that you have no drain on your plenum?Might be an idea to fit a drain in case fuel puddles on bottom of plenum while idling? would be easy to clear a richness instead of trying to let engine clear itself? Just a thought? I imagine you are working overtime doing final assembly?
  Best of luck!
   Rocky
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saltwheels262
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« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2009, 02:19:33 PM »

Octane,
   I just noticed that you have no drain on your plenum?Might be an idea to fit a drain in case fuel puddles on bottom of plenum while idling? would be easy to clear a richness instead of trying to let engine clear itself? Just a thought? I imagine you are working overtime doing final assembly?
  Best of luck!
   Rocky

sounds like a good idea.


now you just about have to put a drain in.

murphy says if you don't ; you'll wish you had.

franey
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill      
max 10/07 - a/pf   d license
bub '08 - 153.697 a/pf   pump gas
bub '09 - 156.377 aps/pf  ran out of gear
lta  '10 - 158.208  2 much gear 2x
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
                probably it for that mill, as is.
ohio - (1) 185.076 w/#684                                 
          (2) 182.xxx w/20+ mph winds
lta  9/12  -148mph  in 3rd gear w/new #262 ( couldn't
                pull the rear gear in 4 much less 5 )
ohio - (4)  -153.x~in 4th.(+4 @the rear & leaving 1k+
      rpm on the table)

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007
panic
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« Reply #159 on: June 28, 2009, 11:20:37 AM »

..
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 09:39:58 AM by panic » Logged
octane
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #160 on: June 28, 2009, 02:22:46 PM »

Thanks guys for reminding me !
.-)

...but I do indeed have a drain.
More on that a little later.

Got the clutch installed. Took for ever;
had to file each friction-plate to make them
fit the 'studs'. Remember this is a seventy year old engine
that isn't exactly made with precision machinery.

Rebuild the ignition:
On the right: crappy old stuff
On the left: fine new stuff




..installed new distributor-shaft bushings




..and the Electronic igition




Fabbing the bower-drive set-up:






...and the gear-shift and a bunch of other things
So time to take the beast out:



If you look closely you'll see the drain , a small brass thingy
at the lowest point of the intake/plenum


Kodak-moments:














....and then back to do the billion smalstuff still to be done.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 02:26:07 PM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
octane
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Posts: 515


The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #161 on: June 28, 2009, 02:24:54 PM »

Love the Indian Lars,

Just read the build from end to end and loved it. A friend rebuilt a similar (although larger) blower here and had the same bearing issues you did. he too made a ring and machined the case to suit common bearings. Don't sweat your English, it works just fine for me.

Good luck at Bub, the help and comeraderie you receive here is nothing compared to when out on the white stuff.
Thank you for your kind words Rob !
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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
theazoldcrow
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Yup!




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« Reply #162 on: June 28, 2009, 02:50:35 PM »

Octane!  Ya wouldn't want to take my wife in trade for your bike , would ya?   Just had to ask!    That is one of the three most impressive bikes I've seen in a long time!   Good luck in your endevors with it!  Go fast, and ride safe!!    Crow
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octane
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The INDIAN "Saltcracker" 650 A-VBF




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« Reply #163 on: June 28, 2009, 02:59:31 PM »

Thank you kindly Crow ! ! !



On the trading matter:
I've posted pics of the bike; now you post pics of your wife and then we'll talk business.

.-)


.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 03:02:16 PM by octane » Logged

"A designer knows he has achieved perfection
not when there is nothing left to add
but when there is nothing left to take away"

Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Glen
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« Reply #164 on: June 28, 2009, 03:14:32 PM »

Lars, as always more great workmenship. I want to see it with the salt in the back ground, what a combination of beauty. Again thanks for sharing.
 cheers
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Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah
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