Author Topic: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?  (Read 158533 times)

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Offline manta22

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2014, 12:12:09 PM »
Chuck Weiss raced his '55 Thunderbird in SCCA races at Cumberland, Watkins Glen, & Nassau. He was a Ford Ride & Handling engineer and was responsible for the Mustang II front suspension. He is an encyclopedia of knowledge.

Arkus- Duntov made the Corvette a real sports car.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #106 on: September 22, 2014, 12:13:25 PM »
I didn't realize that 55-57 Corvettes were not available with V-8s or manual transmissions.

The things you learn on the internet!
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline BHR301

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #107 on: September 22, 2014, 05:33:18 PM »
Funny...I seem to remember that the 53 & 54 Corvette had a 6 with an automatic, but 55/56 on had a V8 and a 3 speed and 57 on a V8 with 4 speed, but I'm old and what do I know?  :roll:

Bill

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2014, 08:01:52 PM »
I'm calling "hijack", who cares fight about it somewhere else!
  Sid.

Offline Rick Byrnes

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2015, 12:42:49 PM »
more hijack
Neil,  You know Chuck Weiss?  He was here a couple of years ago to review the liner suspension.  It did meet his approval.
I havent heard from some of the old guys in a while.
I would love to have his 55 Bird street car.  (Perfect restoration)
Rick

Offline manta22

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2015, 06:18:36 PM »
Rick;

Chuck Weiss was in Tucson a couple of years ago and he attended Thursday lunch with us "Car Guyz". I had an opportunity to talk to him about his Mustang II front suspension geometry. If Chuck says it's OK, it's OK.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline tauruck

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2015, 08:29:39 PM »
People saying nice things about Fords!!!!! :evil:

I'm into this Hi Jack thing.

Give us more. :-D :cheers:

Blue

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #112 on: November 29, 2015, 10:45:22 PM »
Another year, (or two, or five, check the original schedule) passed and BSSC is still not running. :dhorse: If they ever run, BSSC will top out at 880-910 mph by their own figures.  Coincidentally, this is the speed range that Blue Flame was designed for  40 years ago and later analysis showed it would achieve.  Without a complete rebuild of the aft-lower chassis of BSSC to accommodate a cluster of rockets, 900 is not remotely practical. Even with that, the blunt and heavy car will never break 950, let alone 1,000.

We have a design to go 2000 kph (1242 mph), structurally and aerodynamicly sound, analyzed by the US Air Force Academy.

It just takes someone with the will to do it for the US.  Everyone in the LSR community needs to reach out to launch an American effort.


Offline martine

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2015, 04:41:19 AM »
Another year, (or two, or five, check the original schedule) passed and BSSC is still not running. :dhorse: If they ever run, BSSC will top out at 880-910 mph by their own figures.  Coincidentally, this is the speed range that Blue Flame was designed for  40 years ago and later analysis showed it would achieve.  Without a complete rebuild of the aft-lower chassis of BSSC to accommodate a cluster of rockets, 900 is not remotely practical. Even with that, the blunt and heavy car will never break 950, let alone 1,000.

We have a design to go 2000 kph (1242 mph), structurally and aerodynamicly sound, analyzed by the US Air Force Academy.

It just takes someone with the will to do it for the US.  Everyone in the LSR community needs to reach out to launch an American effort.
Blue: can I ask why you seem to be knocking a serious and genuine attempt to set a new LSR by the current holders?

What are your thoughts about NAE?
Martin - Bloodhound LSR ambassador

Offline tallguy

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2015, 11:22:31 PM »
There is currently an American effort underway, and I'm supporting it.

It's the North American Eagle.  This project was started more than 15
years ago, and the car has gone more than 500 mph so far. 

I think it's capable of much higher speeds, as it was designed to go
800+ mph.  The team is cautiously running the car, in order to continually
test all the systems, as well as developing new ones.

I have donated money to this project a few times, and intend to keep doing so.

I think the biggest challenge here for the NAE project is financial.  It appears
that so far, no major sponsorship has come forward to help.  I keep trying to
interest individuals in this, but (so far, anyway) don't know how to approach
a large company to ask for their financial help.  I think this task would be
properly done by Ed Shadle, the driver and co-owner.


Blue

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #115 on: February 11, 2016, 03:46:31 AM »
Another year, (or two, or five, check the original schedule) passed and BSSC is still not running. :dhorse: If they ever run, BSSC will top out at 880-910 mph by their own figures.  Coincidentally, this is the speed range that Blue Flame was designed for  40 years ago and later analysis showed it would achieve.  Without a complete rebuild of the aft-lower chassis of BSSC to accommodate a cluster of rockets, 900 is not remotely practical. Even with that, the blunt and heavy car will never break 950, let alone 1,000.

We have a design to go 2000 kph (1242 mph), structurally and aerodynamicly sound, analyzed by the US Air Force Academy.

It just takes someone with the will to do it for the US.  Everyone in the LSR community needs to reach out to launch an American effort.
Blue: can I ask why you seem to be knocking a serious and genuine attempt to set a new LSR by the current holders?

What are your thoughts about NAE?
What is disappointing and disheartening about BSSC is the continued advertisement of the "First car designed to go 1,000 MPH" when the team's own numbers show it will never reach that goal.  I wish them the best of luck.  With the new rocket engines (not yet tested at flight weight, TRL-5) and the constraints of the hardware they have already built, 880-910 is a rational expectation.  This is from their own numbers on the progress of their research with drag and weight growth vs their original baseline requirements.  BSSC is a "serious and genuine" attempt to set a new ALSR above the current record of 763 MPH.  

It will never go 1,000 MPH: too heavy, too much drag, too little power.

For NAE, they have already published a CFD analysis that shows the car's drag equal to the available thrust at 680 MPH.  I am the first to argue that the effects of porous playa on transonic separation and shock reflection reduce drag to lower values than would be expected from studying the existing transonic ground effect database.  However, a brick is a brick.  The drag of the wide rear wheels and the blunt cross section of the much touted mag-lev brakes are too much for the J79 to overcome.  Please do not take my opinion, the NAE team's own analysis shows this.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 03:57:42 AM by Blue »

Offline TrickyDicky

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #116 on: February 11, 2016, 04:39:59 AM »
Another year, (or two, or five, check the original schedule) passed and BSSC is still not running. :dhorse: If they ever run, BSSC will top out at 880-910 mph by their own figures.  Coincidentally, this is the speed range that Blue Flame was designed for  40 years ago and later analysis showed it would achieve.  Without a complete rebuild of the aft-lower chassis of BSSC to accommodate a cluster of rockets, 900 is not remotely practical. Even with that, the blunt and heavy car will never break 950, let alone 1,000.

...
Blue: can I ask why you seem to be knocking a serious and genuine attempt to set a new LSR by the current holders?

...
What is disappointing and disheartening about BSSC is the continued advertisement of the "First car designed to go 1,000 MPH" when the team's own numbers show it will never reach that goal.  I wish them the best of luck.  With the new rocket engines (not yet tested at flight weight, TRL-5) and the constraints of the hardware they have already built, 910-940 is a rational expectation.  This is from their own numbers on the progress of their research with drag and weight growth vs their original baseline requirements.  BSSC is a "serious and genuine" attempt to set a new ALSR above the current record of 763 MPH. 

It will never go 1,000 MPH: too heavy, too much drag, too little power.

...

I freely admit that I may be gullible, but I do buy into the Richard Noble 'hype', based mainly on his (and the team's) track record with Thrust 2 and ThrustSSC.  He has a dogged persistence to keep going until his goals are achieved.  If I were "anti-Noble" (and I'm not saying you are) my main concern would be that there is no serious contender to get to 1,000 mph first, whenever that might be.

That being said, the Bloodhound SSC project was conceived as a reaction to the perceived threat from Craig Breedlove.  One of the aims was to maximise the potential of current technology and set a record that will last a generation.  It will be the last word on the subject from Richard Noble/Andy Green/Ron Ayers.

The design goal is for a peak speed of 1,050 mph to ensure an average of 1,000 mph over the mile.  That is a very difficult target to hit but I have not seen any figures from the team to suggest it cannot be achieved.  The remaining difficult technical area is the rocket, which as you say has not been tested in the form needed for BSSC.  The other difficulty is money (isn't it always?), which has been given as a reason for the latest delays.  It would be really helpful if someone else could set an 800 mph record!  That would generate enormous publicity and probably loosen the purse strings in some companies' boardrooms.

If you are correct, a record of 920 mph (say) would not be too shabby and might give others something attainable to shoot at.  Up to a point too much weight and drag can be overcome with extra thrust.  It all depends how big a firework Andy is willing to sit in front of.   :-o

I would predict that BSSC will be the first car over 1,000 mph.  I would not like to say whether this will be in 2, 3, 5 or more years time.  No-one else is ready to come close.

Offline Polyhead

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #117 on: February 11, 2016, 09:11:32 AM »
Another year, (or two, or five, check the original schedule) passed and BSSC is still not running. :dhorse: If they ever run, BSSC will top out at 880-910 mph by their own figures.  Coincidentally, this is the speed range that Blue Flame was designed for  40 years ago and later analysis showed it would achieve.  Without a complete rebuild of the aft-lower chassis of BSSC to accommodate a cluster of rockets, 900 is not remotely practical. Even with that, the blunt and heavy car will never break 950, let alone 1,000.

We have a design to go 2000 kph (1242 mph), structurally and aerodynamicly sound, analyzed by the US Air Force Academy.

It just takes someone with the will to do it for the US.  Everyone in the LSR community needs to reach out to launch an American effort.
Blue: can I ask why you seem to be knocking a serious and genuine attempt to set a new LSR by the current holders?

What are your thoughts about NAE?
What is disappointing and disheartening about BSSC is the continued advertisement of the "First car designed to go 1,000 MPH" when the team's own numbers show it will never reach that goal.  I wish them the best of luck.  With the new rocket engines (not yet tested at flight weight, TRL-5) and the constraints of the hardware they have already built, 880-910 is a rational expectation.  This is from their own numbers on the progress of their research with drag and weight growth vs their original baseline requirements.  BSSC is a "serious and genuine" attempt to set a new ALSR above the current record of 763 MPH.  

It will never go 1,000 MPH: too heavy, too much drag, too little power.

For NAE, they have already published a CFD analysis that shows the car's drag equal to the available thrust at 680 MPH.  I am the first to argue that the effects of porous playa on transonic separation and shock reflection reduce drag to lower values than would be expected from studying the existing transonic ground effect database.  However, a brick is a brick.  The drag of the wide rear wheels and the blunt cross section of the much touted mag-lev brakes are too much for the J79 to overcome.  Please do not take my opinion, the NAE team's own analysis shows this.

Too heavy, too blunt, won't be fast.  All of the exact same things said of thrust ssc.

We have a better design, someone should find us instead, we don't like sour grapes....

It's 2016 right?  I could swear I've heard all of this before.
Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
  KE7GAL

Offline martine

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #118 on: February 11, 2016, 06:09:36 PM »
What is disappointing and disheartening about BSSC is the continued advertisement of the "First car designed to go 1,000 MPH" when the team's own numbers show it will never reach that goal.
Please point me in the right direction...I've not seen or heard anything to say it can't do 1000mph.  I've spoken with Chief engineer: Mark Chapman and Chief Aerodynamicist: Ron Ayes - are you really saying they are lying to me?
Martin - Bloodhound LSR ambassador

Offline BHR301

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Re: Whats the problem with The Unlimited land speed record?
« Reply #119 on: February 11, 2016, 07:51:09 PM »
martine

I just wish they would say less and prove more, a run or two before blowing their own horn would be nice.

Bill