Rules, Organizational layout

[narider]

Don't get me wrong, I've painted my class on my bike. I have not obtained the speed to up the current record in my class, but have stayed(and will continue stay) in that class until I do.
 TD

[k.h.]

So, a 50cc moped can class jumps to open records, too, all the way up the engine size chain through 3000cc & Unlimited?

[equimania]

Originally posted by k.h.:
  So, a 50cc moped can class jumps to open records, too, all the way up the engine size chain through 3000cc & Unlimited?

Yup.  By the tone of your voice you say that like it is a bad thing.    
 
 Mark

[k.h.]

Bad thing?  No.  Absurd?  Maybe.  The way the system works?  Yes.  We are a nation of hot rodders.  One man's hot rod is another man's boat anchor.  I miss the smell of castor oil in the pits, but use Mobil 1 myself.
 
  <small>[ December 09, 2004, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: k.h. ]</small>

[Paul Batts]

Reflecting on some excellent points that Deb and others have made reminds me of something someone, who I repect highly and value their views, once said during a discussion I was a part of regarding much of this same subject matter. Thanks SG.
 
 Paraphrasing..."We are racers, this is true, but this is also business and we must remember to keep that perspective."
 
 Anything we do to discourage racers from coming to our events will only hurt the organization. Anything we can do to ENCOURAGE racers to come to our events will only help our organization. If that means finding a way to have a points program that is fair to all, I am all for that. If it means allowing racers to run in multiple classes and at the same time generate revenue for the organization, I am all for that as well. Please remember, it takes dollars (as well as other things) to make an event happen. The fewer racers we have the more dollar burden we each must carry. That could mean entry fees as high as...well...as high as the SCTA. Or worse, not having a place on the East Coast to race at all.
 
 PB
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[Paul Batts]

Points Race - if points were to be awarded for performance improvement (I like that) and all were equal across the board for slow folks and fast folks how about the number of points being awarded being equal to the new speed divided by the old speed.
 I know there would be other factors as well, but, I was just trying to come up with an easy way to calculate points that would be exactly fair to all, regardless of how fast you go. The above calculation reflects a "percentage of improvement" regardless of speed.
 
 Also, I am particularly fond of the idea of awards for things like Best Engineered, Most Improved, etc. Now there's an award one could receive for just showing up.
 
 I would like to go ahead and nominate The Stuart Brothers with their 100+mph go-cart now for "Most Insane".LOL
 
 PB
 2801

[k.h.]

British site doctordanger.com has a section on sprint racing & drag racing.  Last year's Thundersprint Classic in Cheshire brought out 75,000 paying fans @ 8 GBP each.  That's a million dollar+ gate. Includes RWYB (run what ya brung) classes for the masses.
 
 Re: cash purses v. amateur racing:  No one really has oversight, but, for example, I believe the SCTA is now a 501 C 3 "tax exempt" non-profit, which would limit their activities to amateur events with awards, but no monetary prizes.  The question would be:  Once you take a cash prize at BUB (in the LSR sport), are you still an amateur at BNI?  Sure, professional race drivers come from other racing forms & participate.  Nits to pick, true enough, but when the IRS audits a 501 C 3 non-profit, it's got to be amateur.
 
 If Mohammed can't go to the FIM mountain . . . perhaps enjoining the AMA to act for the FIM in this country will accommodate the needs of some US LSR.  FIM records at Nardo, Italy, in the big prototype "test bowl" are common.  The FIM certified records at the Laredo Proving Grounds for Honda in '85 & 86.  Maybe the answer is AMA LSR records, and a place to see them, keep track of them, publish them, whatever.  Just like SCTA offers, only for all the other venues.  But I would not want to be the "dart board" attempting homogenizing the rules.  And if you want fans, get closer to them.  All the LSR venues are arguably "remote."

[k.h.]

Another bout of mental flatulance:  How about a governing body which establishes an outline for "one way records" to accommodate Maxton & Goliad, maybe one way runs at some venue at Bonneville, and whatever other venue that might need a one way format.  Say this org creates it's own national rule & record book for one way runs, available to participants and fans alike, satisfying a rider's vanity for being listed "in the record book," duly noted as a one way run.  Add wind conditions if you like.  Entrants pay a nominal fee for record recording and org underwriting (just like FIM, only much less money). This would cover exitisting non-salt venues under one umbrella without trying to satisfy FIM requirements, which don't help cars anyway.  A representative of the org could be in attendance to certify time slips done at Maxton/Goliad/wherever for national records.  I propose this as the least expensive route to a homogenized national record format outside Bonneville without detracting from it.

[Paul Batts]

I suppose just because a course is run in one direction doesn't mean a record would have to be a one pass deal. Many U.S. drag racing organizations, for example, require "backup" runs within a given E.T. or M.P.H. percentage to establish a record.
 
 PB

[equimania]

Originally posted by k.h.:
  No one really has oversight, but, for example, I believe the SCTA is now a 501 C 3 "tax exempt" non-profit, which would limit their activities to amateur events with awards, but no monetary prizes.

I don't know one way or the other for sure, but I would be stunned to find that the SCTA is 501(c)(3) qualified.  They note on their website that they are not run for profit, but that is very different from being a tax exempt not-for-profit enterprise.  The IRS has historically jealously guarded that status from what they consider hobby enterprises, which land speed racing would be.  Does anyone know for sure if SCTA is a 501(c)(3)?
 
 Mark

[k.h.]

If 501(c)3 happened, it was within the last year or so.  
 
 Paul's back up run idea is good, and simple.  
 
 This would not be to compete with any existing organization.  Just a sanctioning body doing just that: sanctioning events, NOT promoting events, just setting rules for competition, verifying and keeping track of records.  Keep things as simple as possible.

[narider]

Originally posted by k.h.:
  Parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. (The mountains are in labor giving birth to a mouse)

And to think I thought it meant
 Nascar participants look ridiculous mounting a moose.
 TD
 PS - I like the backup run idea alot!

[k.h.]

"FIM Rules--
 081.10.1  For Short Distance Courses:
 A straight course between two points not having a gradient of more than 1% be used.  It must be covered once in each direction with a maximum time interval of two hours between each run."
 
 I don't know how they do it at Elvington(England) and Lelystad (Holland).  Does it really matter?  If a Bonneville course has run for records has been X long one time and Y another time, or back-up runs have been run for records, then a record sanctioning body for miles such as Goliad and Maxton should be able to create requirements that fit the nominal layouts with accommodation for safety.  Every racer will be on equal footing per the regs.  
 
 Better traction on tarmac clearly makes for higher speeds than salt.  LSR records in one venue (salt or pavement) may encourage racers in the the other venue to work harder to be the actual "fastest" in any given class that has a corresponding class.  Competition breeds innovation. It's the American way.

[Malcolm UK]

The British have made official speed record runs under the rules of the Auto Cycle Union (affiliated to the FIM) for bikes and three wheelers and Motor Sports Association (affiliated to the FIA) for cars and thrust powered special vehicles.
 
 This has neant at Elvington Airfield (1.9 miles total length) two way runs - within 2 hours and wind speed for FIM and 1 hour for FIA.  Timing traps have been 1/4 mile long. 500 metres, kilo and mile.
 
 The motorcycle records that the FIM list set in the UK are now mainly for the standing starts, but 'flyers' have been achieved in the past.  Team Maximum Impulse with rider Richard Brown of the controls of the Gillette Mach 3 challenger have a one way 'flyer' timed for a full 1/4 mile (402 metre) averaging 241.15 mph and with chute he was able to stop.
 
 The car records of the FIA that are listed include a few set at Elvington - usually for the smaller capacity class cars or again for standing start attempts.
 
 The new ECTA management may wish to become guardians of World Short Land Speed course records that suit the mile run into a speed timed section of 132 feet.  By all means have back up runs but more importantly have good clocks and the right person at the 'controls' to get the times exact.
 
 Here in the UK we have many airfields that could be used in that way and around Europe and in the Scandanavian countries there will be many similar facilities (thanks to NATO and USAF).  There are even some roads too ......  I am told South Africa can close highways to accommodate records but their MSA prefer to run to FIA/FIM operations.
 
 More people are taking to 'run what you brung' style speed events in the UK - just to avoid losing their driving licenses by travelling a bit too fast on the highway - but many will need to upgrade safety features before being 'sanctioned' to run in an event.
 
 Malcolm, Derby, England

[JackD]

A year of leading , not following.
CONGRATULATIONS !!

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