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Author Topic: Kenetic Energy Recovery Systems  (Read 17957 times)
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desotoman
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« Reply #75 on: May 06, 2009, 11:48:06 PM »


Figure a way around THOSE monumental problems,then go after the trick stuff!


These two have figured it out. Here is their record in G/Blown Gas Streamliner at Bonneville.

Entry name: Costella & Yacoucci  352.525  08/06

Tom G.
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« Reply #76 on: May 07, 2009, 12:40:21 AM »

So they've solved CdA and F=MA.

Maybe you know something the rest don't know.

They're adding KERS?
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #77 on: May 07, 2009, 02:14:46 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, it seems to me that Bonneville is much more of a traction and aero-drag problem than a pure power one.  People who have asked my advice seem to have plenty of power left over when they hit their respective aero vs. traction limits and spin the tires.  Most vehicles seem to be limited by acceleration and wheel spin so a little extra boost for the few seconds of the timed mile wouldn't seem to be a major advantage.
It really seems like a no-brainer....there is no limit on how much power you are allowed to use.....so er why would we want KERS?Huh

Blue - The second paragraph of your last post should be etched in stone and put at the El Mirage, Maxton, DLRA, Salt Flats, etc. entrances. (And maybe somehow embedded in the brains of all Landspeed participants).

hear hear!!!!

I am a firm believer that very few people "go the whole hog" with their aero design........power is easy to get.....aero and traction Huh?? well, there's sixty years of salt experience that we can look back at rolleyes rolleyes I can't quite articulate it but there is something about this whole discussion that is pushing my ..."so?" button.......... F1 yep, tick, but what has it got to do with LSR?............

I put this up recently .................
This game is a battle between power and drag, you need to convince traction to be your friend. Power you can get at the shop,most people have more than enough.Drag is something your design will dictate and your design is prey to thousands of different factors.Keep it simple , have a reason for everything you do, not a hunch.

The rules. There are very specific minimum requirements related to safety, learn them off by heart and begin your design there. They dictate the smallest possible area you can sit in.

Learn the basics of aerodynamics, it's not likely you'll ever get to a wind tunnel  so apply the knowns, the unknowns are bad science .


anyway, as Bystander said it seems that Yaccouci and Costella have it kinda down
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« Reply #78 on: May 07, 2009, 10:14:31 AM »

Anyone remember the similar problem Jim Hall had 40 years ago?
His car developed down-force as a result of the on-board JLO snowmobile engine providing vacuum (reverse of a hovercraft).
Until it worked, no one said anything (like the true sportsmen they were: "I don't care if it's legal - until it hurts me").
Then he sorted t out, and they all vapor-locked.
Their first idea to "level the playing field" (only cars like we already have can win) was to add the blower engine's displacement to his engine size (even though this had no connection to the wheels, provided no motive force, added weight, etc.) and in general showing themselves to be poor sports and even worse engineers.
That wasn't enough, since the engine was only 17", so they simply outlawed the very basis for all modern race cars (traction is not limited to mass tire contact patch gravity) by fiat.
"Cheating" means "you did something I could have done, and did so openly and honestly, but I didn't think of it - so it must be wrong".

Remember the underlying principle of our ancestor sport: horse racing?
The purpose of racing is to improve the breed.

Any rule that punishes innovation requires careful scrutiny, and should be adopted only after less restrictive measures have been unsuccessful.
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jl222
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« Reply #79 on: May 07, 2009, 01:34:17 PM »

  Panic
 It seems a lot of racers have forgotten Jim Hall, the Chaparral racers and all their inventions for downforce.
 Or they may of never heard of him as this happend before some were born.
 Their adjustable spoiler design can still be used and the so can the sucker [on streamliners[ might get clogged fast though tongue
 This is why I post articles about WW11 supercharging and water injection because it can be forgotten or never realized information
is out there.
 
      JL222


 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 05:00:38 PM by jl222 » Logged
Blue
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« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2009, 02:27:17 AM »

  Panic
 It seems a lot of racers have forgotten Jim Hall, the Chaparral racers and all their inventions for downforce.
 Or they may of never heard of him as this happend before some were born.
 Their adjustable spoiler design can still be used and the so can the sucker [on streamliners[ might get clogged fast though tongue
 This is why I post articles about WW11 supercharging and water injection because it can be forgotten or never realized information
is out there.
The two absolutely awesome car aerodynamic inventions of the past half century (wings are older) are moveable aero and powered aero.  Both were outlawed and both are good ideas that belong in modern vehicle design.
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« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2009, 07:50:42 AM »

   Years ago,I believe in Hot Rod, There was an article dealing with the lack of traction in Funny Car. The premise was that since the cars were putting out so much extra horsepower and a little extra weight wouldn't hurt they proposed to put a short skirt around the lower edge of the body like a hovercraft and put a pair of huge turbos on the engine with the intake side of the compressor ducted under the car and the outlet side ducted out the rear of the body. The theory was that the faster the car went , the more air was removed from underneath and vented out the back. Never caught on. Probably too many: What if's? If something went wrong, What would keep it from flying? Would the driver be operating in a vacuum?
Too much imagination. cheers Doug
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manta22
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« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2009, 07:28:39 PM »

Doug;

That sounds like Jim Hall's Can- Am "sucker" car. Two big fans were powered by a snowmobile engine. It went like hell but the SCCA outlawed it.

REgards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Ron Gibson
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« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2009, 09:06:14 PM »

Amazing how the memory fades. I think I remember that a rail tried it with a snout off the roots to the ground. IIRC  worked too well. I think that was before carbon, slipper clutches and sticky tires. YMMV

Ron
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« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2009, 10:58:22 PM »

See Pete Robinson- now deceased.

Maybe Pete augered in because of air suction device off blower creating havoc.

Recently deceased (from living, not racing )Don Arivett took a non-mechanical approach and used body shape -ALA Jocko Johnson 1957 efforts -for downforce. Arivett's design legislated out years ago.
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desotoman
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« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2009, 12:15:41 AM »

Photo by Dave Wallace.

Pete crashed the car on this run. The downforce worked too good.

Tom G.


* jere07.jpg (11.36 KB, 340x170 - viewed 210 times.)
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Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers. As a young boy I was always taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.
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« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2009, 09:58:38 AM »

That sounds like Jim Hall


........


really?
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« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2009, 01:36:10 PM »

OK-- got me. I should have read the previous posts.  rolleyes

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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