Author Topic: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats  (Read 13060 times)

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Offline Jim Demmitt Jr

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Southwest Bolivia, featuring the Salar de Uyuni

Very interesting to give you a look at other Salt Flats that ALSR teams are looking at

by Liz Freudenberger


Most tours start from Uyuni but we decided to take the “alternative” trip whi starts in Tupiza, a small town tucked in southern Bolivia almost on the Argentina border. Rumor had it that there were less tourists down there, so that while the tours were a little more expensive they were of higher quality. Rumor also had it that Uyuni itself was not a highlight. We only experienced Tupiza so I can’t honestly evaluate those statements, but I think they turned out to be more or less true after talking with other travelers.

We quite enjoyed Tupiza. We had planned on only staying a day or two while we made tour arrangements but ended up four days as I had a few translation jobs come in. It was a small place, but they had a good market and a few nice restaurants. The internet was some of the slowest we’ve encountered, which is a pain for work, but I met all my deadlines in the end (barely!) so it worked out okay.

After looking around, we took Tupiza Tours, one of the more established companies and one of the more expensive, but we heard from other travelers that their food was worth it. We though the food was okay, but at least it was always plentiful.

We packed ourselves, three lovely English girls, a driver/guide and a cook into a 1995-ish Landrover and drove off into the desert for four days.  The sights on the tour itself can speak for themselves — click link below to the Picasa album. We saw incredibly colored lakes, thousands of flamencos, bizarrely eroded rocks and, of course, the infamous Salt Flat itself. Salvador Dali visited the area back in the day and they say he was highly influenced by the landscapes. Especially in the rock formations, you could see how one could draw that conclusion. We had camera problems, so some of our photos were kindly taken by Sarah, Becky and Harriet, our English tour companions.




The tour actually ended in Uyuni where the three Brits jumped off. We stayed aboard for the 7 hour drive back to Tupiza as we were heading south for Argentina. Along the way, it was interesting to watch the road deteriorate the further south we got. The last two hours were spent mostly driving in the dry riverbeds themselves! It was easy to see why the “roads” become impassible in the rainy season, when they turn into rushing rivers.

For those interested in visiting, Ben and I came away with different impressions of the tour. To me, the trip was an amazing experience, well worth the money and time. While Ben was impressed by the sights, he thought it was too much driving time. He would recommend a day trip from Uyuni to see just the Salar and to skip the rest.



« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 11:52:11 PM by Jim Demmitt Jr »
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Offline bvillercr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 11:03:38 PM »
Look at the altitude here.  You wanna run there?

Offline Jim Demmitt Jr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 11:13:36 PM »
Salar de Atacama, second in size only to the Salar de Uyuni.
 
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Offline bvillercr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 11:23:21 PM »
Do you know the altitudes of these sites?

Offline Jim Demmitt Jr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 11:26:18 PM »
Do you know the altitudes of these sites?



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Offline Jim Demmitt Jr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 11:45:51 PM »
 South American Salt Flats


http://www.sportscars.tv/Newfiles/breedlove.html


World Land Speed Record Attempts - in the sixties

Bonneville 1962

"WHEN Craig Breedlove lost his 'chutes at Bonneville at something around 500 m.p.h., he was rudely reminded of just how short "the world's fastest speedway" really is. John Cobb thought it was none too roomy back in 1947, when the condition of the salt was ideal and he had a 14 mile straight. Since then, pumping the brine from under the salt for potash mining purposes has transformed the surface and the crystalline slab has shrunk remarkably over the years. When Mickey Thompson was struggling for the World Land Speed Record with Challenger he never had more than 10 miles of useable straight and often no more than eight. Donald Campbell, even before his crash in 1960, had declared the Bonneville Salt Flats to be hopelessly short for modern L.S.R. attempts.
The myth that the Bonneville Salt was the world's longest straight, and therefore the ultimate outpost of speed on land, had been repeated in so many thousands of press releases that most - enthusiasts assumed that Campbell was just making excuses for his failures. However, he surprised nearly everyone by locating a possible 20 miles of runway in the wilds of Australia and finally completed his mission successfully. In doing so he also presented the world with a new outpost of speed, remote and rough though it may be.

Before this, I had told his engineer, Ken Norris, of a place where Bluebird could reach her terminal velocity, shut off and coast to a stop without her brakes ever being touched. Donald evidently had his reasons for preferring Commonwealth soil.

I learned about the Salt Flats of Bolivia and Chile from George Poske, a Panagra pilot and South American road racer who was based in Lima, Peru. Poske, who had been flying over these things for years, recognized them as land-speed courses of boundless potential and tested them by taxi-ing over their surfaces at two or three hundred m.p.h.
"It never rains in that part of the. world," he said, "and these salares are so smooth that they probably wouldn't even require scraping. Precious little, anyway."
West of the Andes and between
Iquique and Antofagasta is a great wonderland of salt flats and some of them reach dimensions that stagger the imagination. For example:


                                             Approx.                Approx.
                                             elevation               Length in miles
Salar Grande                     3,000                     32
Salar de Pintados            3,000                     40
Salar de Chiguana          13,000                   10
Salar de Atacama              8,000                    53
Salar de Uyuni                 13,000                    80


Pintados is highly accessible; all too much so, since the railroad from Iquique runs right across it (and then past Los Cerros de Chug Chug, Incan for iron 'horse). But in this airborne age all the Andean and sub-Andean salt flats can be landed on with cargoes that include personnel and perhaps dismantled record machines. All it takes is money, and certain large international corporations are demonstrating a willingness to support L.S.R. attempts quite substantially. The altitudes involved impose no penalties on supercharged piston engines or on turbines and the biggest and highest of the dry lakes offers a palpable advantage in reduced wind resistance and drag, thanks to the much lower air density.
Now that a sort of space race has begun in the L.S.R. field, Bonneville has become less than adequate. Lake Eyre, with its roughness and proneness to flooding, is a doubtful improvement. With 600 m.p.h. just around the corner and with Mach I on the horizon some mighty straights are going to be needed."

 





« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 02:52:30 AM by Jim Demmitt Jr »
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Offline bvillercr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 12:04:10 AM »
I think Ratliff posted this info already.  How accessible are these places.

Offline Jim Demmitt Jr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 02:58:18 AM »
I think Ratliff posted this info already.  How accessible are these places.


There very accessible keep an eye on Bloodhound site as Andy Green has been looking into salt flats across the world. There are many out there you need a good area and long enough to run an ALSR car
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Offline manta22

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 08:09:41 PM »
East of Iquique, Chile are the remains of big nitrate mining operations, Humberstone and Santa Laura. These are like ghost towns-- but the buildings and machinery are still there; it would be a great movie set. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humberstone_and_Santa_Laura_Saltpeter_Works

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline interested bystander

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 10:15:51 PM »
Before determining some of those locations for your ALSR attempt you might want to consult the Sate Department and the CIA World Factbook, plus of course, accesibility by your team.

Some of those regions are controlled by drug cartels and other groups of semi-civilized folks, you know, poison darts and such.

 Transportation in and out might be better served by an air drop in, then hiking out leaving your racer and timing equipment and remaining supplies behind for posterity.

Kind of like Ronald Coleman leaving Shangri-La in that great movie!

Just be sure and document everything before you hike out, unlike the very supicious 6.14, 235 run in your "Pro-Mod".
« Last Edit: February 22, 2009, 10:41:20 PM by interested bystander »
5 mph in pit area (clothed)

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 10:19:04 PM »
or he could just stay there! :-D
kent

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 10:31:27 PM »
I think Ratliff posted this info already.  How accessible are these places.


There very accessible keep an eye on Bloodhound site as Andy Green has been looking into salt flats across the world. There are many out there you need a good area and long enough to run an ALSR car
"very accessible" :?

Get on Google Earth, look around the perimeter of these things and find a good paved road to the nearest major  airport.  There isn't one.  There's also no infrastructure.  Everything we would need would have to be airlifted right to the salt.  Anything that needs repair must be airlifted out.  God help you if the airplane breaks.

Anyone ever get a quote on airlifting a whole team and support equipment halfway around the world?  It's not cheap.

Permits?  Government cooperation?  Security from rich-gringo-snatching natives?  The poorest racer who could afford running there is rich by Bolivian standards.  The logistics are simply impractical for anything other than a major effort.  Not impossible, just not worth it when there are better options.  We considered it.  We did our research.  I wouldn't trust anyone but Richard Noble to pull it off, and it would be expensive with a capital E.

On the plus side, the altitude is a big advantage for ALSR and any turbo car or bike.  Their power can be the same as at Bonneville with proper tuning, and the drag is much lower due to the 12,000'+ altitude.

Offline manta22

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 07:00:26 PM »
Guys;

Don't lump Chile in with other South American countries-- or even Mexico. This is a country that is stable, prosperous, modern, and very friendly toward Americans. A large proprtion of the population is of European descent and the large cities are very cosmopolitan.

I worked in Chile for a couple of months about 10 years ago and enjoyed it very much. True, you won't find an airport near the salars (salt flats) of the Atacama Desert but I'll bet you could drive there off- road without too much trouble.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2009, 07:29:25 PM »
All I know is when running a turbocharger, 11,000' DA will certainly slow you down.  Been there, done that, have the T-Shirt and trophy.  I ran at Bandimere on a 103 deg summer day with thundershowers, and lost roughly 100rwhp.  Nitrous, sure, you're bringing your own air.  But regearing your blower or stepping up on the turbo won't eliminate the effects of high DA.  We only see a loss about 33%-50% as much as what an NA engine sees, but it does lose power.


Offline bvillercr

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Re: Southwest Bolivia, the Uyuni Salt Flats / South American Salt Flats
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2009, 08:27:04 PM »
All I know is when running a turbocharger, 11,000' DA will certainly slow you down.  Been there, done that, have the T-Shirt and trophy.  I ran at Bandimere on a 103 deg summer day with thundershowers, and lost roughly 100rwhp.  Nitrous, sure, you're bringing your own air.  But regearing your blower or stepping up on the turbo won't eliminate the effects of high DA.  We only see a loss about 33%-50% as much as what an NA engine sees, but it does lose power.



Yeah but Jim was talking about Jet vehicles.   :-o