Author Topic: Open wheels and aero............  (Read 10973 times)

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Offline Sumner

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 12:20:03 AM »
Mike and Rex---is this what you are refering to?



Sum

Offline interested bystander

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2009, 12:37:39 AM »
A slightly fuzzy series of shots of things rotating with smoke.

5 mph in pit area (clothed)

Offline Bville701

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2009, 12:39:39 AM »
Someone had posted a web-site that actually did a simulation on this subject, but I can't seem to find it. 4-Barrel Mike, can you help me out on this one?
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Offline maguromic

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2009, 12:41:59 AM »
Turning vane on a Ferrari F1 stationary front wheel disc. The picture is from an F1 forum. A friend of mine that works in F1 said the wheel centers are deigned like a turbine wheel to funnel the air through the rim from one side to the other. Officially its been said to help with brake cooling, but I wonder what ells they are trying to do by moving the air to the outside of the rim. Would be curious to know if they are getting some sort of free acceleration from the turbine front wheels.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 12:46:34 AM by maguromic »
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Offline Graham

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2009, 05:18:09 AM »
Alrighty, I raided a folder at university. Shame I don't have any electronic copies of this stuff but you might want to try looking for work by:

Stapleford and Carr (1970) - multiple wheels, moving ground wind tunnel results vs. stationary ground

Fackrell et al. (1972, 1973 and 1975) - as has already been mentioned. His results are most often returned to by those doing simulations on wheels as a means of validation of the comutational results.

Imaizumi and Yohida (1991) - did experiments on different types of wheels, and specifically on open wheels and partially-enclosed ones (sedan style car).

Oswald and Brone, 1981 as well as Mercker et al. 1991 - studies on enclosed wheels.

Hinson (1999) - experiments on an open wheel conducted for BAR F1, for a range of speeds.

Whitebread (2000) - improved on Hinson's work and looked into the effect of wheel yaw.

Knowles et al. (2002) - made detailed laser doppler annemometry measurements of the wake of an isolated wheel, specifically with regard to the vortex structures.

McManus and Zhang (2006) - detailed computations of the unsteady flowfield around Fackrell's wheel.


Couldn't tell you how useful these papers are to any of you but if you're willing to do some sniffing to track them down they might make for some enlightening reading. The last two probably contain a good summary of what's gone before but a much enhanced understanding of the flow behind and around the wheel just by virtue of up-to-date techniques and standing on the shoulders etc.



Graham Doig
Fluids Laboratory for Interdisciplinary Projects - www.thinkflip.net
Aerospace Engineering Department
California Polytechnic State University

Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2009, 09:26:57 AM »
Someone had posted a web-site that actually did a simulation on this subject, but I can't seem to find it. 4-Barrel Mike, can you help me out on this one?

It's too early!!!  :-D

Half way down the 1st page and on?? http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,5016.0.html

There's more in my first search, but early morning time is limited.  More later perhaps.

Mike
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Offline Bville701

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2009, 09:25:35 PM »
Thanks Mike!!! Sorry for it being so early and all.    :cheers:
Ryan LeFevers

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Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2009, 12:08:43 AM »


The solution is obvious. If the tire is rotating opposite the air flow the turbulence is high.

If the tire is rotating with the air flow the flow is much more laminar.

We just have to make the wheels go the other direction!
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
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It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline interested bystander

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2009, 12:12:41 AM »
Some have had the unfortuate experience of the wheels- and the racecar - going the other way, Dean.

huh, Stan?
5 mph in pit area (clothed)

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2009, 09:50:39 AM »
I have been there :-o---Mark made a Movie of it---SPINS---its ROUGH on tires-  :-o--hope I don't make the Sequel  :cheers:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline Bville701

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2009, 07:25:29 PM »
Kind of hard to spin in your car Sparky?    :cheers:
Ryan LeFevers

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Offline Sumner

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2009, 08:12:51 PM »
Kind of hard to spin in your car Sparky?    :cheers:

I guess you haven't seen the video of him at El Mirage a couple years ago.  I didn't know Sparky at the time and was amazed that a car that long could actually spin and not go over.  Those days are now behind him and the car goes real straight now  :-D,

Sum

Offline Bville701

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2009, 09:40:57 PM »
I'll have to look for that video. I would've been amazed if I've seen it spin as well.    :-o       :cheers:
Ryan LeFevers

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El Mirage "Dirty 2" Club Member

Offline Sumner

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2009, 09:47:55 PM »
I'll have to look for that video. I would've been amazed if I've seen it spin as well.    :-o       :cheers:

I think it was on the SCTA site, but so much there is gone and hopefully the work Dan is doing will keep stuff from going away in the future,

Sum

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Open wheels and aero............
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2009, 11:01:20 PM »
one of the benifits of having "Training wheels" ie a wider track and keeping it "nailed" as it went around---plus a lot luck ----and a guardian angle
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!