Author Topic: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters  (Read 6763 times)

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Offline Jerry O

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Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« on: January 30, 2009, 08:32:51 PM »
Do any of the streamliners and lakesters use any other driver restraints beyond the 7 point systems not counting head and neck systems. The reason I ask, I have found that because of the extreme reclined driver position in my new built streamliner, it appears that if the car was in a nose in crash, much like you would see if the car got airborne and come down nose first or a end over end flip the 7 point system would not hold the driver in properly. From the test that I have done it appears the driver would want sub out of the harness. With the extreme lay down position and the body being more horizontal  the seat belt and shoulder harness does not appear to be that effective. Seems like the main area of the contact will be the crotch straps. Since I am not looking to have a sex change any time soon I would like to come up with something that put more loads back in the main body area. I have even gone to the point of making a crude scale model of the cage area with a crash dummy (GI Joe) and dropped at diffrent heights to see how the driver would react. I also filmed this and played back in slow motion. Just as I expected, the driver did try and sub out of the harness. This may seam like a lot of effort to go through but I want to do everything I can to make the car as safe as possible. With a car that was designed to see speeds of over 300mph, I want to do everything I can to make it safe.  I am new to LSR so I am looking for any advice from you guys that have built and driven these cars. Any info or ideas will be very much appreciated. Any photos of your system will be great too.  Thanks all !!

dwarner

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2009, 09:00:26 PM »
Look in your rulebook and call Joe at DJ Safety.

The manufacturers will be your best bet for advice.

DW

Offline Sumner

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 10:18:16 PM »
Some use an additional belt across the chest and if they can reach down and pull your legs out of the car you might need a belt across your legs.  Have you installed a 7 point in your car now?  I have one and with all the belts tight I can't move anywhere and don't feel the need for a chest belt now.

How about some pictures of your car.  I'd like to see it.

c ya and report back about what works for you,

Sum

Blue

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 01:35:56 PM »
Properly installed, a 7 point  is specifically designed to prevent submarining.  Remember that the lap belt must be tight below the hip joint.  This combines with the left and right leg straps to capture the pelvis in the same manner that a parachute harness does.  To be honest, the center submarine strap is redundant if the leg and lap straps are properly installed and adjusted.

When we worked with Stroud Safety on the ALSR, he informed us that our driver position left us vulnerable in a tumble.  For a highly reclined position, the real danger that still exists is the "reverse submarine" where a rear impact (in a tumble, or if we spin and hit a wall backwards in closed-course racing) causes the drive to go up and back on the seat's inclined angle.  If the shoulder straps are positioned correctly to restrain the driver from going forward, they stretch too much in a rearward impact or break the collarbones.

The solution in F1 (and soon in all racing) is a 9-point.  There is a second set of shoulder straps under the normal ones.  They are routed over the shoulders, down the seat back and cross the back behind the driver.  Attachments are just above elbow level on both sides.  The cross restrains the driver in a rear-side impact.  It's completely transparent to the driver since both sets of shoulder straps are mounted to the same buckles.  It has the added benefit in fast accelerating vehicles (like formula cars) of keeping the driver down in the seat so his feet don't come up off the pedals.

Stroud supplied us with one, and there was agrrement from everyone who tried on the cockpit that it made a difference in upward restraint.  Yes, a 7 point can be mounted so that it restricts upward motion, but only at the expense of forward restraint for a highly reclined position.  Remember to add arm restraints and a HANS so that your wrists and neck don't break and you are still able to get yourself out after everything comes to a stop.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 01:38:12 PM by Blue »

Offline Jerry O

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 08:19:39 PM »
Thanks guys for the info.  I do have the 7 point system installed to the manufactures spec but it just seems to need more. The belts do hold me secure and I fill in a roll over they will do there job. Its the front or rear inpack that I am concered with.  Blue, I like the idea of a 9 point system. I looked on the Stroud site and did not see any thing on that system. Is that something Stroud made just for you. I would love to see a photo of your system if that is possible. Also, I will be using arm restarints but have not found a head and neck system yet that will work in my car. Still looking for the right system. Looking for any ideas on that also. Thanks again for your input.

Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2009, 08:45:20 PM »
Rick White from Auto Power built my 9 point in 2000.. it was so new an idea that the tech guys didn't like what they saw so they made a note in my log book questioning it... when i crashed in 07 Russ Odaily came to me during the crash investigation and asked " did they really write that in your log book?" my responce "I surely didn't".... my advise, if you question your safety equipment, toss it! you might only get one chance to test it
Kent

dwarner

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2009, 02:53:39 PM »
To add to this thread, this is a part of an email I received from Roy Creel on Thursday:

"Today Lee Kennedy, Van Butler , Sterve Davies and I spent several hours with Yevs Morizot, the owner of Stand 21, who makes Hans devices. After a demo film and general orientation, time was spent with Jack Costella , who brought down his new , severe lay down car for a fitting. It was found that in his application ,the 40 degree Hans device worked very well. We will try to have them( Stand 21)  at the May meet Friday to fit and consult with entrants.We are making progress.
c "

We are also in discussion with manufacurers/distributors in the attempt to get product samples and expertise to the salt this year. The idea is to let you guys try different products for your application and give you some time to decide what you need to do.

DW

Blue

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 01:39:14 AM »
Rick White from Auto Power built my 9 point in 2000.. it was so new an idea that the tech guys didn't like what they saw so they made a note in my log book questioning it... when i crashed in 07 Russ Odaily came to me during the crash investigation and asked " did they really write that in your log book?" my responce "I surely didn't".... my advise, if you question your safety equipment, toss it! you might only get one chance to test it
Kent
I'm glad you survived the "Australian Rules" testing!

Seriously, you and everyone who has had a good tumbling crash should weigh in here on what's good, what's not, and helpful hints on rigging.  I've only rolled once, and it wasn't at triple digit speeds.  Going off a bike at 100+, unfortunately, I DO know about.

Offline High Gear

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 03:22:42 PM »
Jerry O

I'm not comfortable if you're not...get one of your crew and spend as much time as necessary to try different adjustments. Depending which belts come into play first when adjusting them makes a huge difference. If the crouch belts are not in play enough you will feel like you can come out the front like you describe, the submarine belt (7th) is there to keep the rest of the belts form letting you move up and feel like you are going out the top. Keep adjusting, I know it's ton of work but you need to be safe and feel safe too.

Good Luck

Gary
Fix What You Know is Wrong First
Spirits Of The Lakes E/FMS Berkeley #569

Offline Richard Thomason

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2009, 04:07:17 PM »
If you're expecting us to fess up about going on our heads, well nice try.

Offline Jerry O

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2009, 10:09:22 PM »
High Gear

Thanks for your info. I have been taking some time to readjust the belts. I think I have then where they need to be now. I think the biggest problem was me not driving in such a recline position before. I have driven dragsters but the seats are not as recline as in my liner. Now to get the head/neck restraint system where I can get in and out of the car. Thanks again everyones help...... Jerry

Offline jl222

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Re: Extra Driver Restraints in Streamliners and Lakesters
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 02:00:13 AM »

 The original seat belts on the 222 camaro [made by Chute Metal no longer in business] had an extra strap that wraped under your legs and went through a leather pouch that held the release this was stiched to the bottom straps that you normally tighten and plug into the release. Hard to describe but they incircled your legs and there was no way to submarine or get a squeaky voice.

             JL222