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Author Topic: SCCA Formula Ford Rollbar : ECTA Compliant?  (Read 6292 times)
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-pru-
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« on: January 13, 2009, 10:05:52 PM »

Following up on a few questions that arose within the "Introduce Yourself" thread, I would like to pose a few questions regarding the roll bar structure for the SCCA Formula Ford 1600 (FF1600) that I would like to run at Maxton.

Specifically, I would like to know if said structure complies with the G/GL if the speed the car remains under 150 mph (highly unlikely that, given the 120hp, it will break 145 in the standing mile).

Here are the SCCA roll bar specification for this car:

9.4.1. BASIC DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS
A. The basic purpose of the roll cage is to protect the driver if the car turns over, runs into an obstacle such as a guardrail or catch fence, or is struck by another car. It shall be designed to withstand compression forces from the weight of the car coming down on the rollover structure and to take fore/aft and lateral loads resulting from the car skidding along on its rollover structure.

B. Forward braces and portions of the main hoop subject to contact by the driver’s helmet (as seated normally and restrained by seatbelt/
shoulder harness) shall be padded with non-resilient material such as Ethafoam® or Ensolite® with a minimum thickness of one-half (1/2) inch. Padding meeting SFI spec 45.1 or FIA 8857-2001 is strongly recommended.

C. No portion of the safety roll cage shall have an aerodynamic effect by creating a vertical thrust.

D. Roll cage or chassis design shall prevent engine intrusion into the driver compartment.

E. Material:
1. Seamless, or DOM (Drawn Over Mandrel) mild steel tubing (SAE 1010, 1020, 1025) or equivalent, or alloy steel tubing (SAE, 4130) shall be used for all roll cage structures. Proof of use of alloy steel is the responsibility of the entrant.

2. Minimum tubing sizes (all Formula, Sports Racing, GT, and Production Category automobiles, and all automobiles registered prior to June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements

(All dimensions in inches):
Vehicle Weight    Material
Without Driver    Mild Steel    Alloy Steel
Up to 1500 lbs.    1.375 x .095    1.375 x .080

Photo of the car sans bodywork:










We would like to run Maxon to verify the "unofficial" paddock rumor that the highest speed attained by a FF1600 is anywhere close to the stated value of 147 mph. That is, a lot of folks say this is the "magic" top speed of these cars, yet no one can provided solid evidence to support.

Above all, we would like to run a car we are familiar with to gain LSR experience before moving forward with our plans (Bonneville run with fully SCTA complaint formula car based G/GL…different chassis / Ford Zetec).
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2009, 11:28:01 PM »

If they don't let you run ECTA, you might contact the USFRA to run on the salt in the 150 club.  You get 2 miles of run and then timed for a 1/4.  Would also give you some salt experience. 
Good Luck with the project...
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 08:36:40 PM »

Get with Keith Turk or Joe Timney for this.
I think the car may be legal to 135/150,but Joe Or Keith would be best ones to talk to.
terry
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-pru-
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2009, 09:24:06 PM »

Get with Keith Turk or Joe Timney for this.
I think the car may be legal to 135/150,but Joe Or Keith would be best ones to talk to.
terry

Thanks for the feedback! To be allowed to run in the 135/150 range would be fantastic!
 
Does anyone have a valid/alternative e-Mail address for Joe? I've tried jtimney@ecta-lsr.com from several different accounts (home and work) only to have my messages bounced back even after the "was added as a contact / all messages delievered" anti-SPAM notes...
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2009, 09:39:37 PM »

Try this email addy:   joetimney@dol.net

Best wishes.  Joe's THE GUY to ask questions about chassis and I expect about roll cages, too -- since his company (Delaware Chassis Works) builds 'em.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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-pru-
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 03:29:04 PM »

Get with Keith Turk or Joe Timney for this.
I think the car may be legal to 135/150,but Joe Or Keith would be best ones to talk to.
terry

Spoke to Keith Turk who informed me that, due to the open configuration of this car, it is not eligible to run with ECTC. Bummed to say the least...

Looking into other options where we might run the car with the USFRA 150 club being the leading candidate.

Thanks to all for your input.
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 11:04:28 AM »

Contact the USFRA or you might even contact the LTA. 
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
-pru-
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 11:25:27 AM »

Contact the USFRA or you might even contact the LTA. 

Actually, Bob from LTA has dropped me a note regarding running at Loring! My partner and I are now discussing a trip to ME... grin

Thanks for the follow up!
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 09:31:41 PM »

Regarding ... "Re: SCCA Formula Ford Rollbar : ECTA Compliant?
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:25:27 AM » Quote
Quote from: Stainless1 on Today at 10:04:28 AM
Contact the USFRA or you might even contact the LTA.
 
"Actually, Bob from LTA has dropped me a note regarding running at Loring! My partner and I are now discussing a trip to ME..."
 

Lest anyone translate this as we at LTA will allow cars to run at our venue that might be otherwise prohibited at  ECTA or other LSR tracks, I have a small clarification.
My initial discussion with "Pru" was to relate how my first LSR attempt was a similar SCCA formula vehicle converted to K/GL, with great help and guidance from Keith Turk and John Beckett in a lot of long phone calls to be allowed to make limited speed runs at ECTA.  "Pru" has to modify his vehicle to meet the same standards that I did 9 years ago to SAFELY compete at LTA this summer. We will discuss this online or by phone after he memorizes the ECTA rulebook, the Bible for all things LSR East of Texas. His car has a motor with decent potential and excellent Aero, and suspension ! As LSR safety requirements are at least as stringent ( usually more) as any race sport, the vehicle might also be then appropriate for Auto-X, hillclimbs, Drags, etc. This is my kind of recycling ! We hope they make it up to Maine, we need more four wheel stuff. 
BOB W LTA Minister of Misinformation. apparently.


 
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 11:38:12 PM »

Bob. I suggested LTA because I didn't know if you guys were planning "club races" like the USFRA.  The same reason I suggested he contact USFRA for running in  the 150 Club.  I suspect his SCCA spec cage although small for LSR requirements would meet the safety for 150.  But that is the call for the organization, not me. 
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
-pru-
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 10:27:15 PM »

Bob. I suggested LTA because I didn't know if you guys were planning "club races" like the USFRA.  The same reason I suggested he contact USFRA for running in  the 150 Club.  I suspect his SCCA spec cage although small for LSR requirements would meet the safety for 150.  But that is the call for the organization, not me.

I did indeed read into Bob's initial response an offer to run my car at Loring in its current SCCA legal configuration. Bob followed up his initial note shortly thereafter with a clarification similar to the post above. That is, we are welcome to run Loring after modifying our car to meet ECTA rollbar requirements...

That being said, it looks as though we are back to reviewing USFRA 150 mph club rules as modifying the existing rollbar structure of this car is not an option.

Again, thank you all for your input!
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 09:40:33 PM »

There was a red Formula car at World of Speed but I am not sure whether it was allowed to run for 150 versus 135 club.   It had carbs on both sides and exhaust straight out the tail and only a hoop behind the driver.  Had number x150 and Team Deadwood on the rocker panel.  The names Paul Westerhoff and Kim Schroeder were on the engine cover.  Hopefully, that will help you digg up more info.  Good luck.  I am confident they would let you run the 135 club but not so sure about the long course for 150 though the Harley powered luge was allowed I think.
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 10:09:57 PM »

Milt, I think 130 club is street legal cars, 150 is for cars that don't need to be street legal (although most are) but meet a higher safety standard.
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 04:27:27 PM »

Well, all these strange things were running on the mile course but I suppose you are right and they were running for records in the classes vs running for the 130 club.  If that is the case though, then they must have a class at that event for the formula cars.  I had thought about running one in ecta in the oval/road racer class but didn't spot the open car rule which would have ruled it out.  I also had thoughts about using the front half of one as a basis for a miata powered lakester.   rolleyes
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 04:35:27 PM »

Hey, will someone point me toward the "open car rule" that is being cited.... does it rule out roadsters  huh  Curious minds want to know
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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