Author Topic: bike question  (Read 12312 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 1212FBGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
    • http://www.motobody.com
Re: bike question
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2009, 08:33:43 PM »
wow Sheri i cant believe you actually posted that... i know you never road a bike till the may el mirage 08 meet but have you ever rode a trike configuration?
Kr

Offline TLS750

  • New folks
  • Posts: 4
Re: bike question
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2009, 12:03:24 AM »
To Bak189,

Thanks for your post regarding the dangerousness of these high performance sidecars.  I've had plenty of people ask me about mine with an interest toward building one.  I always give them the same advice which is essentially, "Don't even think about it; leave this stuff to the professionals."  I don't want to be giving away any speed secrets here, but it starts with getting the front suspension set up properly.  Now would be a good time to reflect upon all those who have gone down at high speed at various events and consider the geometry of their front ends.  Sure, some of those "offs" were entirely due to other factors, but some may been affected by bike set up.  There is a whole lot of set up that goes into these sidecars to make them work properly. 

Nonetheless, the point of this comment is that my bike wasn't just a matter of bolting a 3rd wheel to a stock bike.  In my opinion that would be stupid squared, and last I checked, stupid hurts.  Of course I would love to take the credit, but my rig was built by Bob M, and his buddy John N probably had a wrench or two in there also.  I would never recommend anyone try building one of these without some serious experience in the field.  Also, yes I have asked Bob to consider making the ride softer, but he would rather have me complain about the ride than have my Mom call him from the hospital, or worse.

One thing to consider is that as John is doing 200+ mph on his rig, and the sidecar itself is catching all the wind thereby creating a tremendous amount of drag on only one side of the bike, combined with the fact that the bike is accelerating thereby reducing the down force on the front tire, so how much side to side traction does the front tire need in order to keep the rig from spinning out?  Or just making half a spin and rolling like a ball while spitting John off in what would certainly be a horrendous highside?  John???

Tom
#169, 699, 724
Purpose Driven Racing

Offline John Noonan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3606
  • 306 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike
Re: bike question
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2009, 01:31:37 AM »
Tom,

Your sidecar was built better than mine...lets leave it at that...I will be in for a slight upgrade soon.. :cheers:  Best part is that both of the Motorcycle points champions on both Coast's were built at Bob Morelands shop...Tom, I was "told" if you leave real hard the front will wheelie...has that happened yet..?   :-D


J

Offline nefareous

  • New folks
  • Posts: 10
Re: Comments about Trikes
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2009, 07:56:49 AM »
Most trikes flip because they have conventional front forks. My trike has a leading link front end or "earles fork", as the BMW`s that were sold with sidecars. All the F1 sidecar racers use this type of front suspension. Also we are talking about going (hopefully) fast in a straight line, so the probability of an unstable flip would only be at the point of turning the bike...right?

Offline WildBro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: bike question
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2009, 09:25:49 AM »
Tom,

Your sidecar was built better than mine...lets leave it at that...I will be in for a slight upgrade soon.. :cheers:  Best part is that both of the Motorcycle points champions on both Coast's were built at Bob Morelands shop...Tom, I was "told" if you leave real hard the front will wheelie...has that happened yet..?   :-D


J

I have seen all 3 wheels of Tom's bike off the ground and a little sideways :-o  I am sure Tom will never forget that one!  With a corner in the beginning and the end and maybe a few bumps in between, Maxton is no where I would want to ride a sidecar.

Bill
aka: Tenno Celeritas

bak189

  • Guest
Re: bike question
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2009, 11:02:57 AM »
When I am asked about bolting on a 3rd wheel
to a solo bike and go LSR........my first reply is always......longer wheelbase.....and stiff suspension.  Bob M. and John N. are great fabricators in addition to being outstanding racers, they understand what is required to
"bold on a 3rd wheel"  However, I am a firm
believer that a racing sidecar should be build from the ground up........using the special
measurements that a safe and good handling outfit requires.  In addition, as most of you know by now, I feel a proper and safe racing sidecar outfit need a "moving weight" a.k.a.
a passenger.  I have raced and build racing sidecars now for over 50 years and am still learning with every build and track test.
 









 

Offline 1212FBGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
    • http://www.motobody.com
Re: bike question
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2009, 12:06:48 PM »
50 years.!.!..... you must be old.... heck i bet you even go to Arizona for the winter :-D
kent

bak189

  • Guest
Re: bike question
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2009, 03:29:19 PM »
Arizona....Yep, this old guy need a warm climate to get away from the snow and ice in Wrightwood
(ski resort)..............Yes, we do have snow in California (7000 ft)......................................................

PS. 80degrees in Apache Junction Today!!!!

Offline 1212FBGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
    • http://www.motobody.com
Re: bike question
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2009, 04:03:33 PM »
79 so far in Vista  :-D
kent

Offline John Noonan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3606
  • 306 200+ mph time slips. 252 mph on a dirtbike
Re: bike question
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2009, 04:13:22 PM »
80 here in Huntington Beach..

Offline TLS750

  • New folks
  • Posts: 4
Re: bike question
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2009, 07:23:32 PM »
Randy,  Thanks for the pic.  You always do such a great job and we all appreciate it.

John, Wheelie?  No problem, just shift a little weight off you hands and back to your rearend, hit it hard on the launch, and hang on tight.  The front lifts taking the side car wheel off the ground with it, the whole bike leans left due to the weight of the sidecar and ballast, so the whole rig is now turning left on the back tire, when the front comes back down, you are now heading more toward the cotton field than the right hand turn, so now you have to steer the front tire as the bike doesn't lean, get it pointed back in right direction, and be ready to hit second gear.  See, no problem.  Given your riding vast experience, I'd say to go ahead and give it a try on a big open patch of concrete, it's actually not as difficult as it sounds if you don't have to worry about cotton fields and making turns.

Bill, Thanks for being there to witness my airborne assault.  Instead of watching my placement on the track, which is always priority #1 at Maxton, I was thinking like a racer and watching the silly tach thingy in order to hit my shift point.  In the process of doing so, I got a little off to the side and hit a good size bump which sent the whole rig, which is well over 700 lbs, flying through the air.  Once I recovered from that, got back in position on the bike and on the track, it actually got worse.  At the end of the run, I hit the new patch of blacktop dead on and it sent me flying in the air again, this time at 152 mph.  I will certainly never forget that run as long as I live.  Fortunately, the new patch has been shaved a bit.  I really wish Randy had been there with his camera on the start line when I hit the first bump in order to get a shot of the daylight under my rig like one of the TT guys.

Tom

Offline 55chevr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2446
Re: bike question
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2009, 07:34:34 PM »
11 degrees in NYC today ... Joe

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13167
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: bike question
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2009, 09:22:54 PM »
-13F at 7.30 this morning, -3F right now (9.25PM), in Skandia, Michigan.

The good part of it?  No mosquitoes!
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8968
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: bike question
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2009, 09:35:42 PM »
-13F at 7.30 this morning, -3F right now (9.25PM), in Skandia, Michigan.

The good part of it?  No mosquitoes!

Yea, as I remember they start to thin out when the temp is in the teens for a month or so....  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13167
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: bike question
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2009, 09:39:52 PM »
The bad part of the equation is that as the predator mosquitoes go away -- the food source for 'em, the wily snow snake, begins to run amok.  Gotta be careful.  Here's a photo of Nancy trying to step on one of the snakes:
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com