State of the art seats

[saltfever]

I stand corrected. After seeing Maguromic’s post no. 8, I went back and re-read the Race Car Engineering (11/08) New Products article about the Aerodine seat. My confusion came from watching an interview with John Force discussing many changes affecting the driver's tub. John is hell-bent on safety after his accidents in ’07 and Kalitta’s accident in ’08. However, it is not focused on a “breakaway” but rather more in-car protection.  He has made the following changes to all his cars and kept discussing the tub concept.
1. A larger roll cage to keep the driver's head from bouncing off the tubing in an accident.
2. Increased padding around the roll cage for more protection for the driver.
3. An enclosed tub for the drivers to protect their legs and arms in a crash.
4. Additional support bars to strengthen a "weakness" found on the steering support.
5. Increased thickness on chassis tubing from 1 3/8 inches to 1½ inches.
6. A third rail on the side of the cars for added protection on the upper part of the driver's body. This added weight to the car, so the NHRA mandated a 100-pound weight increase for 2008.
7. A blue box data recorder to study the G-forces of an impact in an accident.

Yes, in no.1 he has increased the roll cage size to make more room for more padding. This is opposite recent SCTA wisdom in narrowing the laterial space between the cage and the driver's helmet. And note number 7 which should be another topic. 

[Peter Jack]

I think if you go back and examine the reason for the increase in the room inside the cage you'll find that the increased room is the taken up by a specialized padding. Part of the whole deal was to lessen the shock loads to the brain. There is verry little room for the head to move inside the cage even though the bars themselves have been moved back.

Pete

[Stainless1]

7. A blue box data recorder to study the G-forces of an impact in an accident.

This is a particularly good point.

Many of us will recall that a highly skilled motorcycle rider
died in a recent accident at Maxton. 

His bike had data aquisition operating at the time of the
crash, and that data became a crucial part of the
investigation finding the cause(s) of the crash.
......

I guess I missed the info on the cause of the crash and what the data revealed, care to share that with us to make us all safer... 

[1212FBGS]

fever
yes the extra distance added to the inside of the cage is to make it structurally stronger and to get the needed room for padding and other devises to relieve the shock load to the helmet... you dont want the helmet moving around alot cuz the sudden stop of the brain inside of the skull is what causes the brain to swell... they learned that generations ago when some college got millions of government money to find out why people die from hitting there head in bath tub falls... you don't want the helmet to cage too tight cuz when ya drive over the crunches at the 7mile the vibration will buzz the optic nerve... Ya just couldnt resist turning a thread into something about you could ya scott.?...
Kent

[saltfever]

fever
... Ya just couldn't resist turning a thread into something about you could ya Scott.?...
Kent

Oh, p l e a s e!!  Why did you do that Kent?    Scott is a good guy who brings value to any discussion. I didn't see a smiley at the end of your post. This is not a Ratliff deal; some of us are genuinely interested in the subject.

[saltfever]

fever
yes the extra distance added to the inside of the cage is to make it structurally stronger and to get the needed room for padding and other devises to relieve the shock load to the helmet... you don't want the helmet moving around alot cuz the sudden stop of the brain inside of the skull is what causes the brain to swell... snip . . Kent

Peter and Kent I agree with the reason for increased padding therefore more space needed with the roll cage. Another issue is that funny car drivers experience blurred vision during tire shake and at often at top end. Force is also trying to stop the blurred vision caused by the helmet in contact with the padding. John has done a complete 180 on safety. He has hired a PhD safety engineer, is doing expensive testing, is working with NHRA and others. He is being very careful to test and understand results before adopting something new that may not end up with the intended result. Maybe it is age or maybe it is his daughter, but he is no longer cavalier about safety. When he lost Eric Medlin he changed.  Eric's crash was a low speed (for a funny car) accident. Eric was dead before he hit the wall at 110 mph. His death was caused by violent oscillation in the car and the effect on his brain as you mentioned. Much focus, is being made by many associations, on laterial support of the head and padding to attenuate forces. We will all benefit.

[saltfever]

7. A blue box data recorder to study the G-forces of an impact in an accident.

This is a particularly good point.
Many of us will recall that a highly skilled motorcycle rider
died in a recent accident at Maxton.  (snip . . .)Data acquisition is expensive, but everybody can gain from it's use.

Scott many thanks for wading in on this important subject. I tried to start a similar thread a while ago. I expected the usual blathering from a few but finally gave up. Please go here and look at my message no 4. I will post something there to bring the thread back up front.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4643.0.html

I hope this does not violate list protocol by resurrecting a "dead thread". If it does I apologize to all, and will not pursue it. PM me if you prefer.

[maguromic]

Safety is an important discussion. Its very difficult to stay on top of all the innovation thats been going on in recent years.  Saltfever, please keep adding to it or this thread.  Some of us here are very interested in the subject.  Even though I may not implement everything, I like learning about new things.

Unfortunately we live in a very litigious society, and I can see eventually the insurance companies requiring every one being required to have a black box for racing. 

[saltfever]

(snip . . .) I can see eventually the insurance companies requiring every one being required to have a black box for racing. 

Please see my thread started in October. "Accident Data Acquisition". Just one idea on how to get accident data collection for all with affordable cost.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4643.msg71994/topicseen.html#msg71994

Before people complain about "affordable". I am not an EE. I don't know the cost. And I'm not suggesting existing $5K systems! I'm suggesting a "purpose-built" system just for LSR. If you have done the research and say it can't be done show me. Otherwise, I'll slowly keep looking into it. And yes, I have had some ASICs made for about $15K NRE and $800 first article. If a LSR box could come in less than $1K it might get some attention.