What results would you expect?

[Roadster943]

  With all other factors remaining the same, what would the results be if I took the running gear out of my roadster and put it in a 92 Firebird? My best MPH in the roadster is 206.8.  If the Cd in the roadster is .75 and the bird is .30 what would you expect to see.  The record in the roadster class is 232.3, in the firebird class it is 235.8.
  I am thinking that I can build the Firebird using a lot of the roadster parts and get near the record a lot cheaper than I can build enough HP to get the roadster there.
   I think I can do some minor things to the roadster and get 210 or a little more. That said I think I am 150 to 200 HP short of the record. It is going to be extremley expensive to get that extra HP.
  I am eager to hear everyones opinion.  Thanks Vince

[Roadster943]

   
  I figure the drag area of the roadster at 11+. The Firebird at about 6.5. Does this seem to be in the area?
I do not have a number for the exposed tires and wheels on the roadster. Is my drag # in the ballpark on these cars?

[Sumner]

   
  I figure the drag area of the roadster at 11+. The Firebird at about 6.5. Does this seem to be in the area?
I do not have a number for the exposed tires and wheels on the roadster. Is my drag # in the ballpark on these cars?

Are you calling the drag area the CdA??

From what you know about the CdA and your current speeds and current rear wheel HP if you have that you could probably get pretty close using the spreadsheet on my site here.................

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html

..................... using the Drag Force-HP-Thrust-Weight one and............

...................... the Horsepower Needed one to figure out how much HP you would need in your current configuration.

If you can't figure out how to use them post back or PM me.  If I had all the numbers I'd do it for you, but it would be good for you to learn how to use them for future use.

c ya,

Sum

[Bville701]

 I know that it takes roughly 1400 HP to make a 92 firebird go 300 MPH. I don't know if that helps you figure out the HP number that you need to go 236 MPH, but I thought I would just throw that out there.  Dynoroom might be helpful in this area as well. He has EVERYTHING you need to know about a 92 Firebird.

Ryan

[bvillercr]

I read that Rains firebird put out 1700hp, and he came close to 300mph.

[SPARKY]

I think you are a little low on 300---1400 I dont think will get it done!!!!!

[Bville701]

I think Rains did have at least one 300 MPH pass. The car I was referring to was the Kugels. Their motor made 1400 HP and they went 300 MPH. I think Rains has an 88 Firebird which might be a little different on the aero side and might require more HP. Again, I'm not sure but those guys sure are fast!!!
 

Ryan

[Dynoroom]

I think you are a little low on 300---1400 I dont think will get it done!!!!!

Ya wana bet? 

[Bville701]

 

[interested bystander]

Back to the query that started this- two C Street Roadsters with bonified Nascar motors (800 hp plus is generally recognized) have gone 218 in THAT class. The former CSR 210 mph record holding motor with a modest budget magneto ignition, Hilborn injected motor with quality, but conservative heads (read that, REASONABLY-priced) and camshaft went over 238 in an unblown gas altered  Monza that ,as of the 2008 rulebook, still holds the class record (Steve Batchelor).

Not as good as Cd as the Firebird, perhaps, but that Monza was a slippery car so this data might be informative for what you're planning.

[Bville701]

I agree that is some good data for what he wants to do. 

[Dynoroom]

I have built engines that have run 235 mph in gas roadsters. this same engine package runs about the same in GT car and a coupe. The roadster has tires in the air & a bad C/d but less frontal area than a coupe with a good C/d. Go figure. I've not had one of my motors in a St/Roadster and we know they are tough. But a couple have run 218+ with ~850 hp.

[Roadster943]

  Thanks for the input everyone.  

  Sum   I am taking the frontal area X the drag coefficient to determine the drag area. I thought this would be a way to come up with a number for each car that could be compared apples to apples. I will try to use your flow chart. Thank You.  I don't know if you remember me. I was pitted a couple spots down from Hooley, brown primer roadster, we talked about it some.

interested bystander  yes that info does help, sounds like I may have a chance, My car is a gas roadster with 706hp on the dyno. My best pass has been 206.8 but I feel with some more sorting out, air intake duct to the carb, small gear change to get the rpm up, bigger carb that it is capable of 210-212.

 My engine is a wet sump so there is some power to be had by dry sumping it. How much? Opinions?

 My engine is 412" and I am running a 950 cfm 4150, with the poor air we have to deal with would I be better of with more carb?
  The Firebird could run in 3 classes, GC 235.850, GALT 238.883, FALT 235.607.  I am thinking that FALT class may be the one. A little fuel in my engine will help the hp numbers.
  I am also thinking of running a 9 inch in the bird as opposed to the quick change in the roadster if I think I can get the gear ratio were I want it.




Thanks for the input everyone. I am open to everyones opinion.  Vince

[Dynoroom]

 Thanks for the input everyone.  

  interested bystander  yes that info does help, sounds like I may have a chance, My car is a gas roadster with 706hp on the dyno. My best pass has been 206.8 but I feel with some more sorting out, air intake duct to the carb, small gear change to get the rpm up, bigger carb that it is capable of 210-212.
   
Thanks for the input everyone. I am open to everyones opinion.  Vince

We set the B/GR record @ 232 (wilson/waters barley got it back) with a carb in the Frank Harlin #277 car a few years ago. I guess we go faster with less power than most. this engine made ~735hp on my Superflow 901 dyno. I guess this shows how different the "same" car can be. 

Good luck on your quest.

[Roadster943]

 Wow Dyno tell me more. My car is setting on top of duece type frame rails, with a rake and I think I only cut 4" out of the duece grill shell. I am running a Muncie and a Winters quick change with 4.11 r&p and was running 2.90 final, to high she quit puliing about 6900. The dyno sheet says 706 at 7400 but I am only down about 18 hp at 6900.
  At speedweek this year I started out with Hydraulic oil in the trans and rear. First pass I felt it nose over at the 4 mile and start to slow. 204 mph in the 4. Shut it down, heard some bad noises, got to the return road
and the car would not roll, not even wiggle. I found that I had welded first gear to the mainshaft. I ground all the teeth off 1st and put it back together. I pulled out from the push truck in 2nd gear and ran the 206 with 85/90 in the trans. We got the car ready to go out early the next morning to get cool air. Good plan except there was a couple accidents and a fire that morning. We ended up running about noon, went 202 into an 8mph head wind and that was the last pass for SW. Had it all ready to go for October with different gears and looking for cool air but we all know how that turned out. So now I am looking at a long winter and thinking I will be way off the record next year and wondering how to do more with what I have and can afford. I had my wife come out and hopfully we have a picture added to this post. She is the best. She did not even blink when I told her my idea to build another car. I am lucky there. All that said I would much rather set a record with my roadster than with a Firebird I have just been thinking that I was a long way off.
 I will try to find a picture of # 277, any other info you want to pass on is appreciated.
 I think the dyno # on my engine is fair, it is a Reher and Morrison engine I bought from them and believe they are a reputable outfit.   Thanks again  Vince