Fun with Nitrous, how to torch cut a valve under load...

[joea]

trn, have you individually flowed each jet....?...ie in as close
to real world conditions as possible...ie what each jet flowed
when entire system activated and other jets also flowing simultaneously....

for me that for sure is the start......prove to the best of
your ability what is coming out of your delivery system...dont
believe the manufacturers claims of jet flow consistency.....

that is always revealing.....youll find a 30 jet that matches
the flow of a 24 or 28 jet...etc....

timing is another key factor in the holy grail of nitrous....

its not as simple as x amount of retard for x amount of nitrous...

what compression ratio...?...cam timing..?

plus lets step back, at one point...you were setting records with nitrous,
had a "successful" program...you employed these same concepts to your
last "tune up"....and it blew up....thats why its so hard to give advice..

youve already eliminated one tune up that wont work with x nitrous hp
to base engine power ratio....and at least one that worked...

i cant give you guidleines of egt-a/f to tune with because I abandoned
those methods


I think you will find as I said earlier.....best success running richer
than you imagined....with more ignition retard than you imagined...
and fuel quality is imperative......and the nitrous to fuel ratios stainless
mentioned.....

[joea]

and trn, please...dont fall into the mentality that the
world needs another hayabusa to set a record..........

there is nothing better than your kaw for doing this...

and additionally....more power to all you guys wanting
to set a fuel record with nitrous.....certainly alot of potential
there.....

[TRNorBRN6001]

Wow, very very helpful. I am going to have to absorb it and then start from the begining. Who knew nitrous could be so much fun!

Thank you all again, every little bit realy helps. Sometimes you have to tell me 2-3 times over for it to sink in, I am starting to get old.

Guess it's time to set up a science project.


Thanks again,

            Gary

[TRNorBRN6001]

Thanks for the words of encouragement JoeA, I'll try my best!

[half-fast]

Just looking for opinions on this possible arrangement.

Run 'regular' gas (whether it be pump gas, ERC-110K, whatever etc) as the fuel that is burned when not on the juice.

Have a seperate supply of 'fuel' distinct and different the regular 'fuel' that is supplied while on the juice.

For the fuel to use when the juice is activated use an alcohol (Meth-, Eth-, Prop, or Butanol {pick one}) in the right proportions to the extra oxidizer supplied.

It should 'burn' cooler as compared to 'gas' and avoid the detonation woes? Will the equivilant same amount of RWHP be made?

What are the thoughts?

thanks,

Lloyd

ps Guy, missed you at Maxton in Oct, but did see Wayne burn some Al.

[wfojohn]

joea,

I am new to nitrous and bought a wet system to install. I read several times on this board about flow testing the jets by some means of verifying their accuracy. Can you point me to a link or info sheet or describe how this testing is done. The more I read on this board (thanks Slim) the more I realize that LSR is a whole different way of approaching using it. I will be looking to run nos in the future with the ECTA.

Thanks in advance

[Stainless1]

Wfo, Joe is offline, but I noticed you were online, so I will offer you the info...  re read this entire thread, it points you to other threads you should read.  The info is here, no one has put together a Primer on how to run N20.  The reason is in this thread.  Testing is time consuming, you will waste 10 lbs of N20 and save yourself about a grand  on motor parts.

Half, the more variables you add to the chamber, the more likely it is that you will have an event.  It has been tried, both successfully and unsuccessfully.  Our car has 2 separate fuel systems....  Give it a try, let us know.

Bottom line... know what you are putting in your motor before you do it. 

[Freud]

Racer or wanna be?

Fuel control, gas, nitro or juice all have the one common characteristic. It has to be correct or you will fail. Each one has some unique quality that you may have trouble isolating but you have to attempt to understand it.

Successful racing includes a lot of drudgery, hours of flow bench testing and nobody stopping by to tell you how great your last run was.

I have seen that one of the great pitfalls is trusting what the number is on a new jet. The only way you know what that jet will flow is for you  to flow it, label it and package it with a numbering system that only you need to understand. Just picking out a jet that just came to you from a manufacturer is like blindfolding yourself and digging into a piggy bank.

You have to know what u are using. It seems like a mystery when a different cyl burns down after a jet change. Develop a system that allows you to know exactly how much fuel is going thru each jet. If you don't you are bound to burn down. This can be costly if u farm out the work. Look around, find a flow bench and get started. You don't have to have the latest equipment. Any system is better than none. You just have to buckle down and do your own research. As you learn, more and more things will become apparent. Things that were mysterious to you will become matter of fact.

Change only one thing at a time. Science has taught us that we can not reliably draw a conclusion when we change more than one item.

It all takes time and is boring but it's a necessary step to success. The hours of tedium lead to moments of success.

FREUD

[wfojohn]

Stainless and Freud,

I am going to reread it tonight and try to absorb it. I do have a 110 Superflow and my own NOS refill system and don't mind wasting 10 lbs or whatever it takes, just looking to get educated as much as would seem necessary before using it. Thanks, I really appreciate the help.

[joea]

wfoe etal, .......there are plenty of folks
who want to prescribe to the practice of tuning normally aspirated
on a base fuel, then adding the supplemental fuel for nitrous from
a separate supply system.....

Please consider this..:....when the nitrous is on this new cylinder pressure
and flame front characteristics are looking for weak link, that base engine fuel may be providing the weak link in the fuel slurry, the base engine fuel characteristics may be woefully inadequate to deal with the new
environment provided by the nitrous.....

and also, remember, you may have plenty of fuel for the fire, but if its not
stable, it doesnt matter how proper (rich) the mixture is, detonation and preignition
prevail......

and wfoe....the flowbench numbers may be helpful, but i would personally also simply
activate the fuel system, and let the nitrous nozzle pee fuel into separate little containers
so you can see what is coming out as a volume and weight from each nozzle/jet....

Joe

[wfojohn]

joea and Stainless,
I just spent the last 90 minutes reading and rereading and now understand the "flowbench" readings we not the flow referred to as I surmised to be Superflow. I will beyond a doubt test the jets as described. I started a small file of cut and paste for the notes I ran across so I have something to review a couple times until it sinks in a bit. I am sure I will realize it is a tough challenge but I want to do it and have to start somewhere. The knowledge and imput on here is great.

[joea]

and please above all.....realize that you should take everything
we say with a big grain of salt.....our opinion/input might only steer
you as far as we have gone.....and that includes hurting stuff......

there is so much potential out there for far better speeds with nitrous
than has been touched thus far.....

Joe

[wfojohn]

joea,
Not to worry, I am no virgin. Been around engines a long time and realize the risks, I just am glad Slim stepped up when Jon decided his tour of duty at the reins was finished. Losing this collective info would really hurt a lot of us. Atleast I now have a perspective of the perils of nos when going more than a 1/4 mile which I would not have initially even suspected without this groups imput. Knowledge is horsepower as much as any other component.

[Larry Forstall]

Gosh, all of you have scared me so badly I think I will put the wet kit back on the shelf. Don't they say think outside the box to find performance others have not? How about just the other corner of the box? I always cut my lip when I try to lick the envelope. Twelve years ago I had a combo on my oil-cooled, but I never pushed the button. I think it is time to give it another try. Now where are those Tiger stickers?    Packard, that's the secret word, Groucho (Slim) did the little birdy come down and give me $$  ?

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Hey, good idea, Larry -- but no $$ in the envelope for you.  George Fenneman took the money.  You are the first one to notice the car-brand swear words, though (or at least the first that made a comment).