Fun with Nitrous, how to torch cut a valve under load...

[osti]

Gary,

WOW!!! Thanks for posting the pictures. It could have been a lot worse. As others have said the head is totally fixable. You will have her running again in no time flat. I sure she will be running strong by March.

Ryan

[2fast4u2c]

TRNorBRN6001 ,

From your pic's, it's looks like (in my lowly opinion) you didn't sink your pistons far enough in the hole, the valves tapped (due to float?), you detonated and then NOS/plasma cut the valves and pistons. You stayed in it even when you felt it nose over.  I've seen 5 of those in the last 3 years.  Welcome to Nitrous.

Guy

[TRNorBRN6001]

Thanks Guy, your opinion is highly valued. 5 in 3 years, ouch. I am 2 in 5 years, I'm catching up though......................................but no where near the amount you and the real LSR community spray. I'm still in the little leagues! 

Ryan, thanks for the vote of confidence. Hope to see you at Texas or Maxton soon.

[2fast4u2c]

Thanks Guy, your opinion is highly valued. 5 in 3 years, ouch. I am 2 in 5 years, I'm catching up though......................................but no where near the amount you and the real LSR community spray. I'm still in the little leagues! 

Ryan, thanks for the vote of confidence. Hope to see you at Texas or Maxton soon.

If you spray, you pay and yes, you ARE part of the "Real" LSR community.

[TRNorBRN6001]

Thanks Guy, that means a lot.

Gary

[Richard Thomason]

Just a little thought. Ed and I have both gone tango uniform at speeds in excess of 200 (Ed at about 200 and myself at about 280). We have both decided NEVER TO DO THAT AGAIN. The way we both drive now is that "if it ain't perfect SHUT OFF". That has saved our butts (and parts) more than once. We have always felt that drivers are like light bulbs-screw one out and screw another one in. At high speed, no driver can do anything good. All you can do is screw up. The best thing that you can expect from a driver is not to do anything bad. If you think I'm wrong, have at it!

[KZScott]

Would a water injection system be something to look into here to keep things safe?

[2fast4u2c]

Water is a placebo for safe running of nitrous in my lowly opinion.
Safe running is the proper A/F (nos/C-16) ratio with the proper amount of timing taken out during the run.  Now that's the million dollar question.  What is the safe ratio to give you the right amount of power for the run.  I keep learning what ISN'T the safe ratio, injecting water just means you need more nos/C-16 to get back to your original power level and injecting water just means you have another variable to worry about.  Just 1 more thing that can go wrong and I have enough things to worry about during a run.  If you can cram air/fuel into a motor at 22:1 or better using a turbo and generate over 500HP, then you can cram nos/c-16 and do the same thing it's just skinning a different cat.
But I keep blowing stuff up in my quest to go faster so what do I know?

Guy

[Stainless1]

Water is a placebo for safe running of nitrous in my lowly opinion.
Safe running is the proper A/F (nos/C-16) ratio with the proper amount of timing taken out during the run.  Now that's the million dollar question.  What is the safe ratio to give you the right amount of power for the run....
Guy

We have never tried water but I have to agree with Guy  especially because it is exactly what you will hear from me when discussing N20. 
You can put "X" amount of volume of stuff in the chamber, if it is the right ratio, it will not run hotter, it will just make more power.  Eliminate the things in there that create hot spots, sharp edges are your enemy. 
We managed to stop burning them down regularly, but then we found the bending point of Carillo rods...   

[KZScott]

Ok, what about water/meth injection? I was reading that it raises your octane level and richens the AFR, allowing more timing, and more power while remaining safe. if we just added the water meth injection and left timing alone would it be down on power or is that just with straight water?
thx!

[Seldom Seen Slim]

ATTENTION Narcs!

He's talking about methanol -- alcohol for racing fuel, not crystal methamphetamines -- bad biker drugs.

Just thought I'd clarify things for the lurkers.

[2fast4u2c]

Ok, what about water/meth injection? I was reading that it raises your octane level and richens the AFR, allowing more timing, and more power while remaining safe. if we just added the water meth injection and left timing alone would it be down on power or is that just with straight water?
thx!

Excellent Idea but...
Now you need a tank, pump, regulator and jet nozzles.  Again, just 1 more thing to go wrong and I have enough to worry about.  Besides, who's going faster than me using this technology?  If it was so good, I would think someone would have already been there and done that.  Theory is great but real world reigns.

Guy

[joea]

kzscott........im convinced that you can make anything work.....

many say.....well if you can make x amount of hp with turbo then you
could do the same with nitrous.........

probably.........BUT.......where are those people proving this out...??

imo...... hp isnt hp..........

ie there have been plenty of folks saying they can make 4-500 hp on 1300 cc
with nitrous...progressive etc.......havent seen them on the salt yet for some reason...

there are some quirky things that happen with large load of nitrous relative to the base
hp of the engine in normally aspirated form..........

imo........namely........taking something that is coming out of the nozzle at around -270 F....
going through phase changes from liquid to gas.....and trying to integrate it into a manageable mixture with air...and fuel....

and trying to form this mixture in the confines of an intake port in close proximity to the intake valve
and combustion chamber.....

what kind of "slurry" do you suppose is making it into the cylinder......the fuel droplets from a typical
nitrous nozzle are huge....abit better of course from fuel injector....but what happens to them at
-270 F in the intake port......especially at those relatively large loads I was speaking of..ie at O2-Fuel
loads that produce 3-4 times the hp of the base engine.....

then add in some...."water".......

all I can say is good luck.......

imo ......at much smaller loads of nitrous........survivability is infinitely more attainable....

its just tough for some folks to live within their means.......like our country......more is better and too
much is just enough.........

PS....and stainless....isnt it interesting how you can find the bending point of a rod with nitrous...
but then nearly double that nitrous hp with turbo and same rod stays true......

guy makes some great points imo......you can get real involved quickly with abunch of nitrous control
garb....lots of electrical dohickys....than try to control yet more liquid flow stuff for water/methanol.....wow....

NOT at all saying this cant and shouldt be done....infact the more naysayers...possibly the more reason to go out
and pursue it.......so what your made of......be a pioneer.....many of us will be watching......

[KZScott]

I guess the main reason for bringing it up was that from doing a bit of research(google: water meth injection ) about it, it seems pretty common on turbo street cars. I know thats different, but its the same general idea. making more power safely by raising the effective octane level, and lowering EGT's. I think it was close to 10 points in octane, and something like 200 degrees lower EGT. It sounded good to me anyway . I dont really want to push the limit like Guy (well not for a few yrs) but I think something like this would be good for myself and maybe Gary to stay at the approx hp level we are at, but do it with much less risk of melting parts!

[Stainless1]

Joe, yes it it strange that less HP with N20 can bend one .... and more HP on boost won't ... but I think you nailed it with the "slurry" comment.  Hey, if this was easy, we could all use it successfully