Putting a cage in a model A coupe.

[Kevin Lee]

I am now to the point of putting a cage in my Model A and am having trouble interpreting the rules for placement of certain parts of the cage.  Rulebook says supports must be 5" vertically from the top of the main hoop.  But is this if you have a roll bar only or would this include the construction of a cage?  I am trying to avoid any support from the main hoop rearward poking out of the back of the body.

Also, if I mocked this up with conduit or PVC and posted photos is there someone here who could officially tell me I am headed in the right direction? 

[doug odom]

I'm sure some one has pictures of a coupe like yours with a legal roll bar setup that can post them or direct you to where they are posted.

[willieworld]

second paragraph  3.B.1  a minimum of four (4) point roll cage required if the front hoop is continuous and directly connected to the lower frame rail.---sounds like they were thinking of a coupe when they wrote that   willie buchta

[Kevin Lee]

So do you interpret that as saying I don't need the rear supports at all, or can lower them if the front hoop "is continuous and directly connected to the lower frame rail"?

[dwarner]

Kevin,

Try submitting your question to:

 rulebookinfo@scta-bni.org

 or contacing the appropriate tech chair listed in your rulebook.

DW

[willieworld]

it says 4 point ---do as dan says  as im not an expert on the rules   willie buchta

[jimmy six]

Pete Richardson has been running his Model A coupe (Lickety Split) for many years very successfully. His car passes inspection every time (even his first time) without problems.
If he took out the V4 and put in a KB or blown big block there may be some additional problems running his car mainly since it has a stock frame. You should always contact someone on the rules committee for answers. With that said YOU should always state your intensions and classes you are building the car for......Good Luck

[Kevin Lee]

Sorry, building for XF/BGCC.

It really is a steep learning curve and getting my head around the requirements for a roll cage has been hard.  The rulebook seems to leave a lot open to interpretation, but as you hear stories about tech inspectors you get the feeling that they are expecting something very specific. (and rightfully so since they are tasked with making sure you are safe)

So here is a sort of diagram.  I do plan to contact the appropriate tech, but I'm sure he/she has better thing to do than educate me on basics.  So I'm just trying to understand things a little better before I do. 



Sorry, orange bar is removable.
yellow bits are gussets
green indicates a crossbar
and blue are the tops and bottoms of the frame rails. (tubing will be welded around the circumference)

[willieworld]

Kevin  I am going to post a couple of pics   a little crude but you get the idea   if you move the main hoop forward  you can get your rear diagonals back to the center of the rearend   These tubes work much better without any bends in them.  The top bar that goes from the main hoop along the roof and down the windshield and down to the frame. I would move that bar as far forward as I could and put two bends in it instead of one big radius. Your fit would be much better and your field of vision would be much better as well.  I know in a coupe that you are cramped for space. You absolutely don't want any part of you behind the main roll cage hoop. Above the windshield you'll have a bar that goes from one side to the other. I would suggest you put in a dash bar which goes below the windshield from one side to the other. It makes the cage alot stronger and it gives you a place to mount the dash the steering the body and whatever else you like. It looks like in your car that you will be able to pull the body off to do the final welding. Which is better because you can get a much tighter fit and better welds. Just build the whole thing inside the car, tack it together, pull the body off and do the final welding. If you cant do that, run the cage tubes through the frame. Once you get it tacked together slide the cage down through the frame and it will be much easier to weld that way. Then raise the cage back up against the body and weld it to the frame.
I'm not to good at explaining things, but if you'd like I can draw you some more pics. And do not forget to put the top diagonal in the roof. It should go from the front left to the rear right. Just like the pic in the SCTA rulebook. Figure 1. Make sure that you put in a passenger side door bar. And the door bar should intersect with the main hoop as close as possible to the shoulder bar or back bar.  Figure 1 page 25 of the rulebook is a perfect cage for what you need. It doesn't have a dash bar,which you should include. And the back bracing should be no less than a 30 degree angle from vertical. Remember that the cage is to keep the car from collapsing in on you. The rest of your safety equipment is very very important. You should buy good quality safety equipment and have it properly installed.VERY IMPORTANT.
Where do you live?

Willie Buchta

[Cajun Kid]

Willie,  would it be better to use a "halo bar" instead of the long bars going from the top of the main hoop and bending down to the chassis then doing a cross bar ?   The halo bar would then use straighter down legs to the chassis below the A pillar.. then tie together with Knee/Dash bar ?

Just my thoughts... also my welder says eaiser to get better weld there than on the cross bar as illustrated,,,, remember,,, I am not a welder,, just my thoughts...

See almost vertical down leg from halo bar








Knee/Dash bar,,, before finsih and paint etc...




Charles

[willieworld]

charles  ive done them both ways and prefer on way over the other ---but if someone is new at this the halo bar would be  easier--and if you screw up a bar instead of a 7 ft. piece its only a 4 ft 6 in piece ---which ever way you decide it is much easier to tack the cage in the car -lift off the body -finish up the welding with the body off--or take the chassis and car to your favorite welder --if you cant pull the body off make sure you can drop the cage down 4 or 6 inches to do the final welding ---dont be afraid to add extra tubing or gussets---remember the rules are minimums---willie buchta

[4-barrel Mike]

Pete Richardson has been running his Model A coupe (Lickety Split) for many years very successfully. His car passes inspection every time (even his first time) without problems.
If he took out the V4 and put in a KB or blown big block there may be some additional problems running his car mainly since it has a stock frame. You should always contact someone on the rules committee for answers. With that said YOU should always state your intensions and classes you are building the car for......Good Luck

I've got hundreds of pictures of the car, but none of the rollbar specifically.  Hopefully the following will help a little:


Lower left front






Mike

[doug odom]

Kevin, I would think about having the front of the orange side bar go to the top of the frame where the A post bar attaches to the frame. Also think about making the orange bar straight and not curved and attach at the same point as the rear kick up bar meets the B post bar. I like all the bars to be straight if at all possible and never intersect another bar in an unsupported position. Just my way, not a rule.

[jimmy six]

Kevin, no matter what style you do; consider a bar going froward from about where your "S" is on the door paralleling the frame to a spot infront of the engine. This could be a bolt in part. Weld a stub bar foward to the firewall, then do a 2,3 or 4 bolt flange, plate in on the engine side of the firewall to a spot forward on the frame. All of this could be bolted for engine swaps or other reasons. A stiff frame makes for a good LSR car no matter the engine or speed. Good Luck

[GH]

Kevin, I like the funny-car style cages, they make me feel real secure, just my 2 cents.