Mid-engine engine options

[JimL]

The "transfer case - conventional axle" arrangement requires the axle/diff to be inverted (because the pinion is now faced rearwards).  That will take some thinking regarding lubrication and drainback.  Note that transfer cases (either idler geared or chain drive) will need some cooling help (part of the reason the owners manuals have a recommended top speed in 4WD-Hi range).

I know many of the chain drive type units have a gear oil pump, so it should be possible to add radiator w/ fan.  After visiting with Kent R., I need to learn more about those pumps and how to cool off a chain!  I suspect part of the advantage of Hi Vo is the ability to give up heat (it is even used in aircraft powertrains, using engine oil pressure as the cooling spray, in an enclosed drive).

After reading the previous posts, I realized why the boat V-drives might be good...since boats are "always going uphill, and never coast" at anything above trolling speed!  They must have some pretty good bits in those things...I don't know anything about them, myself.

We sure are a group for "trying to build a better mousetrap", aren't we!   

Regards, JimL

[maguromic]

Like previously mentioned you can build a V drive with some quick change gears.  I saw Jack Costella build one for one of his liners.  They are pretty simple to build.  The Casale V drive is very nice http://www.casalev-drive.com/ and he will build it to any configuration you want.

This link is to the Honda Tech site and it has some nice pictures of a V drive set up for a drag car. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1951022&page=1

Also some time ago G-Force built a trans that was side ways mounted for the sport compact drag guys. All the air logic and lines were inside the trans making for a very clean  piece.

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Thanks for the info, I feel like I am getting a few ideas.

Here is the pic that found that got the idea in my head. *this is on a Ferio site but this IS a Fiat

http://www.fieroaddiction.com/fiat.html

This is a V6 but you can see that there is a good bit of room in the front of the engine and still some on the sides (is the Chev SB V8 wider then the V6???).

This guys transaxle dictated where the motor sat in the bay. If I could use a V drive the length of the drive lines would dictate where the motor sits.


I think the V drive is going to be the answer!

[SPARKY]

It is wider than 2.8 3.1 3.4 eng. series --there are no real good head castings for that series--I would look at 4.0 Northstar V-8 or 3.5 "Shortstar" V-6

[panic]

is the Chev SB V8 wider then the V6???
I suspect so, that V6 looks like a 60°.

[Milwaukee Midget]

Thumbing through some reference materials, I clipped a page from either Rod and Custom or Hot Rod that listed some V8 dimensions.  Width is to the outside of the stock manifolds, or the widest point in the case of the 4.6 Fords, height is bottom of the stock oil pump to the top of the air cleaner and length is from the stock accessory drive to the back of the block.

Block        Width     Length     Height
SBC           26"         28"          27" 
BBC           28"         30 1/2"    29"

SBF            24"         29"         27 1/2" (351W +3")
Cleveland    24 1/2"    29"         28 1/2"
429-460      27"          30"        29"   (No info on Boss)
FE              27"         32"         29"   (No info on SOHC)
4.6 SOHC    28 5/8"    28"         26"
4.6 DOHC    30"         28"         29 7/8"

SB Mopar     24"        29"         27"
BB Mopar     29 1/2    30"         29" (Article did not differentiate between "B" or "RB" - caution!)
426 Hemi     29"        32"         32"

Obviously these are rough dimensions.

 

[Jonny Hotnuts]

Milwaukee Midget:

Whatever you get paid.....its not enough!!!!!


Good info!!!!!!

-JH

[38Chevy454]

JH, if my memory is working correctly it seems to recall an old neighbor had a Lexus sc300 coupe.  This car had an inline 6 mounted front to back, but the trans converted it to front wheel drive.  Sorta kinda like the Olds Toronados did.  Maybe an option to consider?  Although I think all those overpriced Toyotas were automatic trans.

You can get reverse rotation third members and gears for the Ford 9-inch rearends, as well as many others that were used in the fornt differential of 4x4 trucks.  The reverse rotation solves your oiling issues and using the coast side of the ring gears of a standard roation diff.

[John Burk]

http://www.truehi9.com/index.html - makes high pinion 9" third members and gears which if you flip them right to left would be low pinion reverse rotation but the ratios are all in the 4's and 5's . G-force makes reverse rotation output 5 speeds - http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/images/g5-rev/g5-rev1.jpg  . Halibrant made reverse rotation QC's . All rears to some extent can drive on the coast face of the teeth . Some or all 4wd front axles drive that way . When you build streamliners with odd ball drive lines you learn this stuff .

John Burk

 

[Peter Jack]

My experience has been that driving on the coast side of the crown gear leads to very sharp crown gear teeth very quickly. This is not good!

Pete

[JimL]

Not sure if this would work for you, but a Civic/Accord trans from a few years back was set up for engines that rotate backwards from everything else.  You could turn the transaxle around, and run a different engine behind the axle line.  This would give you the forward gears.  The Honda trans are tough.  Might be a problem for the diff gears....I really don't know.  Lots of good parts available for those, both trans and diff.

Just brainstorming your interesting dilemma!

Regards, JimL

[Sumner]

This is a long winded question, bare with me!...................My ultimate goal is to eventually have an LS6 motor (or other DOHC V8) in there; this however is in the future. If I could get an F or E would be a good place to start.

Seeing what your long term goal is I would look at a transmission like a G-Force, Jerico, etc., so you could change gear ratios, run it as an overdrive with very little rpm drop going into 4th or 5th, etc..  Of course I also can't see packaging a LS type motor in there and still getting you and all the other items you will need in the car.

At some point you might also have to look at changing vehicles, just my opinion,

Sum

[tortoise]

At some point you might also have to look at changing vehicles, just my opinion,

A new chassis would of course be necessary, but I see no reason why a front engine wouldn't work with his body.

[manta22]

My mid- engine modified sports uses a Donovan (SBC) driving a Porsche G50 transaxle but the tranny is mounted upside down so that I have 5 speeds forward instead of reverse. This is one way to deal with reverse rotation.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ