Author Topic: nos to alcohol  (Read 13290 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JoshH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2008, 01:53:09 AM »
Stainless1 - can you point me to the thread about bench testing? I can't locate it for the life of me...

Thanks Josh.

landracing

  • Guest
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2008, 09:14:06 AM »

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8948
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2008, 10:31:03 AM »
Yep, after you read that then search the forum home page for nitrous...  :-P and after you read all of those, ask lots of questions.  N20 can kill your motor even when it seems everything is working properly, it only takes a little hiccup.  Plan to carry a lot more than you need for 1 run and fill the bottle every run. 
Have fun, see ya on the salt  8-)
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline JoshH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2008, 01:49:44 PM »
Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I think I have already read just about every thread using 'nitrous' in the search field. I have a couple pages of notes to prove it! I recall a discussion on determining fuel/nitrous jetting using ratio by weight during a bench test - this is the one I can't seem to locate. It's not in the thread that Jon pointed to. Do you guys happen to know this ratio?

Josh

Offline willieworld

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1818
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2008, 02:22:02 PM »
josh --i think that was me --ill see if i can find the thread--but then what the hell do i know---3 pases 3 blown up motors --nitrous is pretty easy in low doses but when you get greedy K BOOM  --i thought i had it figered out---my advise is to bolt on a turbo at least then there still plugs to read----willie buchta

josh its in the BUILD DIARIES  under CBR 1000 A/F    by oz
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 02:29:44 PM by willieworld »
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline saltwheels262

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
  • LTA 7/2013
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2008, 06:07:39 PM »
i was going to run methanol back when. very forgiving fuel ,easy on parts . put as much compression as possible. still have my notes ,etc. think i saved your #,w/ call this wk.

franey
bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007

landracing

  • Guest
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 07:59:48 PM »
Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I think I have already read just about every thread using 'nitrous' in the search field. I have a couple pages of notes to prove it! I recall a discussion on determining fuel/nitrous jetting using ratio by weight during a bench test - this is the one I can't seem to locate. It's not in the thread that Jon pointed to. Do you guys happen to know this ratio?

Josh

Josh,

I probably would not use that method that he discussed... I would rather use the methods that have worked for many others... Which is flow each jet you plan on using for nitrous with nitrous and each one used for fuel, flowed with fuel.

Jon

Offline willieworld

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1818
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 08:20:04 PM »
jon---some times i just gotta do what i can afford----i could have spent the money on nitrous and flowed all of my jets or spent it on gas for the truck and went to bonneville --not a tough choice for me---willie buchta
willie-dpombatmir-buchta

Offline Dean Los Angeles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2370
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 08:33:37 PM »
Quote
jon---some times i just gotta do what i can afford----i could have spent the money on nitrous and flowed all of my jets or spent it on gas for the truck and went to bonneville --not a tough choice for me---willie buchta

Good choice. You have to determine what your budget is and stick to it. Having unlimited dyno time and complete computer readout for every variable would be great, but most of us would rather eat on a regular basis.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8948
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2008, 08:52:02 PM »
OK guys this is what I think I know, my notes are in Denver.  5:1 is safe and rich, 6:1 is leaner and a bit riskier.   Running rich only looses a little HP, just don't go too rich, that has its own set of problems.  How do you know the ratio?  We used a very accurate scale, flowed each gas jet to get sets that flowed the same.  Yes this implies that all #22 jets are not the same... We used baby food jars, a stopwatch and flowed and weighed as accurately as possible.  Same with the N20.  We put the bottle on the scale, flowed and measured, keeping bottle pressure stable at the number we planned to race.  Be aware, N20 changes pressures quickly and goes gaseous at Bonneville temps.  Some folks plan for gaseous, some plan for liquid.  There is more VE in liquid.  Then all you need to do is calculate so you run 5 lbs of N20 for every pound of enrichment fuel.  Also be aware, the bottle gets cooler as you use N20 and the pressure decreases, so it you plan gaseous, and it goes liquid, you are now quite lean, plan on a hole in something.... if you are lucky, the decreased pressure of liquid will not get you too lean if you planned the higher pressure gas, that is also why 5 is better than 6.  There is a big jump when it goes to gas, easy to tell.  Seems like 950 is liquid, then 1175 its gas.  
Hope this helps.  Don't trust drag race kits at Bonneville unless they have gotten a lot better, if you go with their jet combos, turn the fuel pressure up a little beyond their recommendation.  
Smart guys feel free to correct my memory as required.
See ya on the salt  8-)
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline 1212FBGS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2532
    • http://www.motobody.com
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2008, 08:57:40 PM »
1 5lb bottle of nos flow testing your jets is far cheeper than 1 blown motor

Offline Speed Limit 1000

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1396
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2008, 01:15:27 AM »
1 5lb bottle of nos flow testing your jets is far cheeper than 1 blown motor

Do you think? I/FL 221.183 my red hat and Stainless as the crew chief!
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Offline Stainless1

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8948
  • Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2008, 08:30:13 AM »
1 5lb bottle of nos flow testing your jets is far cheeper than 1 blown motor

Do you think? I/FL 221.183 my red hat and Stainless as the crew chief!

What Johnboy failed to say is we had the car over 200 a dozen times before we decided that the N20 info and equipment available at the time didn't work so well over the long haul....  :| 
We probably "wasted" 20 to 30 pounds of N20 during the flow tests, or about $60.... (much cheaper that a piston) but we were really "happy" almost giddy during the tests. (We were lucky that the only N20 that our gas supplier had on hand was medical grade and didn't smell bad) 
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline JoshH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2008, 12:35:56 PM »
Thanks Stainless,

Those were the numbers that I was looking for! I'll start with 5:1 (and compare to my existing jetting) just to be on the conservative side - adjust from there. When you guys get into fine tuning where do you draw the line between adjusting fuel pressure verses going to the next jet. Probably more of a personal preference question but I'm curious.

I'm well aware of the deficiencies of the drag style systems. I have been completely shocked with the instability of those systems over relatively short runs.

Josh

Offline willieworld

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1818
Re: nos to alcohol
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2008, 07:10:50 PM »
i see its been a while sence you bought nitrous ---i remember paying 21 cents a gallon for gas to----------willie buchta
willie-dpombatmir-buchta