Somebody help clarify this

[Malcolm UK]

It would not be french maths, as the committee only have to read a report presented to them with the times and speeds set out on it already done for them. 

I understood the 132 feet but unsure why the order of times made them appear to be at different ends of the 5 mile.  Was he SCTA/BNI acting for the FIA when Al ran?

I have met Al in the US and England, and whilst not able to speak openly with him in public on his achievements, it is interesting that he makes a quote reported above on the 425 mph kilo speed.  It is also disturbing because the vehicle entrant has to make the record claim aided by the time keepers and steward's (overall and technical) reports.  Who made the claim for Al then?

My point is that the recent Burkland speed could be the legitimate record for that class but they will not get the fullest kudos that they deserve and others named have got from around the automotive world.  [The Goldenrod made a world tour after their bid.  I have not seen the Burkland car live for ten years, it would be great to see it up close at the Birmingham NEC event or perhaps Goodwood in '09].

Malcolm 

[Low Sodium]

17 years after the fact, I believe the obvious mile/kilo discrepancy is going to remain one of the many mysteries of LSR.

[Sumner]

....................My questions are - has the FIA a correct record 'on their books'?  and did Al Teague ever set records on the same pair of runs that differed by 16 mph between the mile and kilo?

Has anyone got better information?

Malcolm UK

I've always wondered about this also, but on my last night in Wendover (Friday) at the grocery store I was talking to the FIA guy at Cook's meet (sorry I can't remember your name), and this came up.  He said at that meet that instead of the Kilo being setup in the middle of the mile like was done at this meet that the kilo was at the beginning of the mile and on I think the return the kilo was entered at the beginning of the mile and Al had a high speed for it, but then greatly reduced speed after it and from the end of it to the end of the mile his speed dropped way off.  If the course was setup that way then there would have been almost 2000 feet at the end of the kilo to slow down in before the end of the mile.

Now looking at the numbers you posted I still don't see how it happened using those numbers, but are you absolutely sure those are the right numbers and are the mile figures right?  With normal numbering going one way mile 5 is mile 3 going the other way or were the numbers turned around to represent the miles without that confusion?  I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear or not and hopefully the FIA fellow will see this and post as he says he has started to read the board.

c ya,

Sum

[PorkPie]

Malcolm, don't worry - you will be not less popular than before - and you was not the first who request this speed - and it was me to who Al said "he has no idea where this speed comes from.."

Also Al was to this time not aware that he run 425 mph in the kilo - first, the speed was in kph and not in mph on the certification, second, who cares in the US for the kilo in Europe we do....

I know the original time slip very well - Al showed me a copie he maked of for to safe this document....and when you look on you will come to same result as you. Correct is that Al slowed down after he left the kilo, still running in the mile on one of his run....but the speed different couldn't be so much.

When Al runs 2002 he blew his engine in the middle of the mile and on the average he lost only 5 mph....

When I asked in 2001 the FIA official if he knows where the big different comes from - he has no idea. Also Al was requesting this...the answer was the same...no idea....but it is certified so and it will be so in the record book for ever and one day someone will go faster...Tom Burkland can do it when the engines runs well and he can trust his parachute..

[Low Sodium]

Pork Pie  - you hit the nail on the head - it's in the books and will not be changed - someone (hopefully Burkland) will come along and wipe out the mysterious 425 kilo record - you gotta love a challenge - just like waiting for Nish to conquer the Summers Bros. record - hopefully a few others (Herbert?) will join in again to keep all of us entertained & on the edge of our seats . . . especially with great "live" reporting from the salt like last week!
W.

[Wester]

Personally, I admire the outstanding record of precision timing established by men like Crocker, Cagle,  Barrett, and, more recently, the Rice Bros. For me, the SCTA/BNI "book" is what truly counts in the world of LSR.
Willi
[/quote]

Don't forget that the FIA records set in the 90's were at USFRA meets.  The Fred Larsen, Danny Boy streamliner and other FIA records were set at World of Speed with Carl Olsen from NHRA as the FIA certified observer at least one year.  International politics may have clouded that fact.

[Chaz]

OK, all this begs another question. Do the various organizations recognize each others' records?

[fastesthonda_jim]

Don't know if this helps this discussion or not, but it is interesting.  A few of my pics of Al's Turnaround at 2002 World Finals.

[fastesthonda_jim]

A couple more pics and Al's time slip

[Wester]

FIA certification can take place anywhere their stewards are in attendance and have a chance to see engine displacements and the course to be sure both are accurate.  The biggest problem is the cost to have them in attendance.  The folks racing at Mike Cook's private meet came up with substantial $$$ for the opportunity to get FIA and FIM sanctioned records.

Any records set at sanctioned SCTA/BNI or USFRA meets are recognized by both organizations but the FIA and FIM observers have to be in attendance and be paid generously to have them sanction a record.  The initial fee is only the beginning.   It costs a racer $2500 in addition to get a printed certificate verifying their record and in the past it has taken up to a year to actually get the certificate in your hands.  Nothing has changed since the early 1960's when I was on a pit crew for a record setting boat.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

[TrickyDicky]

A couple more pics and Al's time slip

Stumbled across this old thread.  I have a couple of questions about this record.  Perhaps someone reading this knows the answers. 

• Is the timing slip for the first or second (up/down; out/return; not sure of the correct terminology) run?
• Was the 5-mile speed of 421.097 mph part of a record?
• Was this run part of an FIA record only, or was an SCTA record also set at the same time?

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

[Malcolm UK]

"Tricky" - see my posting on page 1.  Not sure after six years we will get to know any more.

The 1522 run was the first of the 'pair' required for an FIA pass.  I believe that run was from the highway towards floating mountain (can someone confirm that?).

The track was set out as a normal SCTA arrangement of the long course.  So the SCTA can apply their same requirement to pair speeds over the same piece of real estate. In essence it was an SCTA event with FIA steward present for their World governance.

On private time or at the Cook Shootout there would only be a 'central' or 'centered' (to the track length available) kilo and mile traps thus taking out all opportunities for 'mixing' pieces of real estate.

The only way to actually see what the Steward reported would be to ask the FIA in Paris - or to make the request through the UK representative (appointed by the the MSA) on the Records Commission of the FIA. Ask for the run details which make up the average speeds.

 

[TrickyDicky]

"Tricky" - see my posting on page 1.  Not sure after six years we will get to know any more.

The 1522 run was the first of the 'pair' required for an FIA pass.

Thanks Malcolm. Your post was about 1991.  The timing slip above (and my question) was about 2002.

[fastesthonda_jim]

I took the above pics.  Frankly I had thought this timing slip was from his return run, from the mountains towards the highway, however, it says it was the "down" run.  And yes, it was at an SCTA meet back when I didn't understand as much about the salt scene as I do now, so I'm hot sure how he was able to carve out 2 hours in the middle of a meet to make his down/record runs.
Knapp

[Seldom Seen Slim]

I I don't know about way back in '92, but these days - at the Shootout - the "down" run is made from the mountain to the highway because that's where the pits are set up.  Doing the turnaround at the team pit is way easier than having to trundle everything necessary way up to the mountain end to get ready for the return run.  As examples, the Speed Demon pit and Amir's Spectre pit and the Burkland pit and the Nish pit - and others, I'm sure - are set up so the car can coast right into the parking area at the pit -- meaning there's no time lost in pushing the car from the end of the course and into the pit for the maintenance.

But - remember, that's what's being done these days.  I don't know about 20-some years ago.