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Offline Chaz

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Somebody help clarify this
« on: September 26, 2008, 11:14:37 PM »
OK, I'm looking at the really fast guys and am having trouble with the records.  Of these folks,who holds what records and in what classes  ? ? ? ? and under what sanctioning body?
Teague
Summers Brothers
Vesco
Burkland
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 11:26:09 PM by Chaz »
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Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 12:14:01 AM »
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Offline Elmo Rodge

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2008, 09:00:29 AM »
Chaz, I searched (on Yahoo) for FIA Landspeed Records) with good result. Wayno
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Offline Chaz

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2008, 09:25:51 AM »
OK, I'm talking wheel driven cars. Here's what I'm seeing:
 Fastest wheel driven car is Vesco at 458+ Turbinator
 Fastest piston driven (blown) Burklands at 417+
 Fastest piston driven (unblown) Summers Bros at 406+
  Is this correct?
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Offline artmodelman

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2008, 02:46:25 PM »
Burklands record is at 417 but they did 450 mph, one way in 2001, Summers Bros Goldenrod was at 409 mph, but the car went 425 mph (one way) the day after they set their record, Nov, 12 1965.

Jim Keeler

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Offline PorkPie

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2008, 03:08:16 PM »
Alright, to get it real clarified:

We are talking about FIA Speed records.

Al Teague set in 1991 a record in the blown engine class 11 a record from 409+ mph/mile and 425+ mph/kilo
Al Teague set in 2002 a record in the blown engine class 10 a record from 405+ mph/mile and 406+ mph/kilo
Bob Summers set in 1965 a record in the unblown engine class 11 a record from 409+ mph/mile and kilo
Don Vesco set in 2001 a record in the turbine catagorie weight class III a record from 458+ mph/mile and kilo
Tom Burkland set in 2008 a record in the blown engine class 11 a record from 415+ mph/mile but no record for the kilo.

The record which Tom Burkland broke was the Al Teague 1991 mile record.

Tom Bukland holds also a SCTA/BNI AA/BFS record - 2004 - from 417 mph - he broke the record from Nolan White from 413 mph from 2002.

Hope now this answered the question
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Pork Pie

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Offline Chaz

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2008, 05:30:18 PM »
Under what sanctioning body did Bob Summers set his record?
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2008, 07:54:57 PM »
Thanx, Porky
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2008, 08:10:03 PM »
Chaz---read PP post!!!!!!!!!! :-D
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Offline John Noonan

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 08:49:21 PM »
Quote from: SPARKY on September 27, 2008, 08:10:03 PM
Chaz---read PP post!!!!!!!!!! :-D

Sparky,

Lets make it easier..

Bob Summers set in 1965 a record in the unblown engine class 11 a record from 409+ mph/mile and kilo

That would be FIA...right porkpie..

J

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Offline PorkPie

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2008, 06:03:08 AM »
Yeap...John
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Pork Pie

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Offline Malcolm UK

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2008, 12:02:27 PM »
Into this topic I now place a question that could make me the most unpopular person writing into this forum ...... ever. (beating Propster right out of the park). 

Did Al Teague set the FIA flying start kilometre record at the speed stated on the FIA website?

The FIA lists Al Teague's flying start kilometre record in A - I - 11, on the 21st August 1981, as 425.050 mph (684.052 kph) for the flying start kilometre.  The mile average on the same day is recorded as 409.695 mph (659.340 kph). 

I was not there and I have not seen the FIA timesheets for the runs that Al made, but I have now been shown copies of SCTA timing slips that were faxed to a journalist in the UK on 6th September 1991 and subsequently published, showing the speeds recorded along the course for runs at 5.52 pm and 6.40 pm.

If these are accurate and if they refer to the two runs that were used to average for the record speeds and would have been subsequently ratified by the FIA, then the published record of 425 mph cannot be a accurate.

I am not able to copy by scanning the document that I have (and that would be unfair on those involved)  but I shall quote the figures and I have  to suggest that they do not confirm such a high speed.  Al set a kilometre record that day but not at the (higher) speed that every one has since had to aim at plus 1%. 

Down run @ 5.52 pm

2 1/4 mile - no speed stated
3 mile - 387.067 mph
4 mile - 408.121 mph
Kilo - 422.438 mph
132 trap - 432.692 mph
5 mile - 425.230 mph

My only query with this string is that I thought the 132 trap would have come at the end of mile 5.

Return run @ 6.40 pm

(the order is reversed on the slip to follow the passage of the car).

132 trap - 384.615 mph
5 mile - 394.602 mph
Kilo - 398.577 mph
4 mile - 411.852 mph
3 mile 351.627 mph.

The FIA work with averages of time for each pass but they are rigid that the timed section has to remain the same piece of track or salt.  So each mile 5 is paired, then mile 4 and so on.  The kilo is it appears is on its own located between 4 and 5.

The speeds we see can be loosely averaged to give an indication of the records.

Mile - match both of the 4 mile of 408.121 and 411.852 to give 409.987 mph
Kilo - match just 422.438 and 398.577 to this gives 410.52 mph

The average for mile 5 is from 425.230 and 394.602 and these give 409.916.  This pairing gave way to the slightly better mile 4 figure.

Someone may have written a figure down incorrectly in the time attained for one of the kilometre passes.  Not even by using the fastest mile speed can Al Teague have set a record of 425.050 with only a single pass where just one distance is timed to give an average speed at 425.230 mph.   

My questions are - has the FIA a correct record 'on their books'?  and did Al Teague ever set records on the same pair of runs that differed by 16 mph between the mile and kilo?

Has anyone got better information?

Malcolm UK
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2008, 12:14:47 PM »
French math  :? maybe something was lost in the interpretation  :| or a typo that continued moving forward. 
Al still went fast for the day  :cheers:
Now Tom went faster  :cheers:  :cheers:
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Offline Glen

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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2008, 12:25:24 PM »
MP, the 132 ft. trap is in the last 132 ft. of the 5th mile. It is the 1st trap on the return leg. It is not used for records or qualiyfing. Gary Cagle was the timer at that time and any original records (printed and written) should be in the archives of SCTA-BNI.
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Glen
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Re: Somebody help clarify this
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2008, 12:41:05 PM »
Malcolm UK,
I don't think bringing up this subject will make you "unpopular" at all. Al himself has stated that he "doesn't know where the 425 kilo comes from."
The confusing FIA rules, records, and classes will never take away from the monumental LSR achievements of Teague, Summers, Vesco, or Burkland.
Personally, I admire the outstanding record of precision timing established by men like Crocker, Cagle,  Barrett, and, more recently, the Rice Bros. For me, the SCTA/BNI "book" is what truly counts in the world of LSR.
Willi
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