Author Topic: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!  (Read 49583 times)

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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2008, 11:39:00 AM »
Sum,

Good Idea on the outlets.. I have (40) 110 duples outlets around the shop and another 10 in the ceiling plans.  Will have 7 total locations for 220  (5)inside the shop on the walls,  (1))  220 in the ceiling and (1) 220 outside.

I am going to buy a Welder too,,, What type, brand and Size do you suggest.

Something capable of doing sheetmental all the way up to 1/4 plate would be all I think I would  ever need....Is the Miller 220 Mig the one to get ?

Thanks,  Yeah I have a line on milling machine as well...
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
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A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
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Offline Glen

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2008, 11:54:47 AM »
Charles,Welders have been discussed on this site in the past. Probably find it in the archives. Talk to Keith at Maxton as he did a lot of research a couple of years ago. Also I believe Miller has classes on welding or even the local Collages might have something.
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2008, 01:14:46 PM »
Charles:

I put all my electrical outlets 52" from the floor. That way anything up to 4' doesn't block them when it's leaning against the wall.

Pete

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2008, 01:19:03 PM »
Charles:

Don't skimp too much on the mig welder. Get one that will take the full size reels. That way the wire is much cheaper and most of them put out decent amperage. No matter what you get you'll find a job where you need "more machine". As long as you stick with one of the brand name machines, i.e. Miller, Lincoln, etc. it's pretty hard to go wrong.

Pete

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2008, 01:44:04 PM »
PJ,

My Brick/Block walls are 44 inches above the concrete shop floor, the outlets will be another 16 inches up the sheetrock wall, so total outlet height will be about 60 inches off the floor around the entire perimeter of the shop.

I was looking at the new Miller 180 (with auto set) it can weld 25ga up to 5/16 inch thick. I can not imagine needing to weld more than 1/4 stock,, so the 5/16th rating should be good enough (keep in mind the last time I welded it was metal shop in Jr. High (Pilot Butte Jr High, Bend Oregon) and then Auto Shop at Ruston High and Louisanna Tech in Ruston La.) many many years ago and it was a Lincoln stick welder. Plus  I was not very good at it.

Thanks for the info, Talk to you Tuesday night in chat.

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

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Offline narider

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »
Todd,

Air Line ?  What size/type of PVC did you use to plumb the air in your shop ?

Did you glue or tape the couplings ?  Can it handle 175 PSI ?

(I was told to use Iron Pipe or that fancy blue pipe with quick couplers (seen on hotrod TV and horsepower  TV)  but whew  very very expensive)

Need save $  as Have to get a new 80 gal Compressor for new shop..

Looking at Ingersol Rand,  Quincy or Bel Aire  compressors,, any suggestions ?

Thanks

Charles

Them TV shows need sponsor cash Charles... probably great stuff, I just know that there's no reason in the world someone like me needs that type of piping. Regular old 1/2" white schedule 40 PVC is what I was taught to use (by my dad), and have ever since. I even buried it and ran 200' under ground to my shed at my last house(under the freeze line of course). You'll get guys that say not to use it, but so far they are always guys that have never used it :roll:

My dad started using it for airline in the mid to late 70's and he, my brother and I have never used anything but it for airline since (at least a 7 or 8 houses between us and two of my shops so far).

I use the normal gluing method (have never tried any kind of tape, and whatever you do don't thread it as it weakens the material in the valleys of course).

I use the 1/2" because the smaller a pipe is the stronger it is when it comes to being able to take a hit (and burst pressure as well by the way), plus it's cheaper and easier to fit and work with. I even tested a tee'd and capped length of it for one of the naysayers with nitrous pressure, it finally split a joint somewhere close to 900psi. I let 600psi on another length of it for 24hours and it was fine. Like I say, we're coming up on 30 years of using it now.

Schedule 80 is even tougher, but also more expensive. and if you're only running 225-250psi or less, I see no reason to bother with it (if you have an area that is prone to be hit with something large for some reason like a fork lift or whatever, you might want to protect the schedule 40 or use some hard pipe in that area).

I don't reccomend this for others, but I do it in all kinds of places when taking the pvc over electrical conduit and such. I heat it with a heat gun and bend it around it... highest I tested it after wards was 300psi and that was enough for me.


As far as a compressor.. there's others that put more wear and tear on them then I do I'm sure. I bought a 80 gallon 7hp unit with a Cast Iron V-twin pump (should a harley shoip have anything else? -lol) . The motor eventually went out and we replaced it with a good unit from Grainger's I think it was (had more starter coils on it or something?).
At anyrate, it sits outside and it won't be long before it will be out there a decade now... so I'm happy with it. I think it's a Husky?.. I couldn't tell the difference between all of them in the specs when I bought it and for the price I just ran up to Home Depot or Lowe's and grabbed one when my last Craftsman unit went out. If anything happens to it I'll do the same again... I couldn't justify the cost of the bigger name brand units.

Good stuff on the outlets, wish I would of thought about both sides of the openings when I did mine (144 outlets plus all the power-strips I've added since and I'm still way shy of what I need and where I need them). Don't forget to throw some high outlets up as well (9' or so) for when you decide you need a cheapo plug in flourescent from Lowe's here and there... beats extension cords or cutting and hardwiring them in a tthe last minute. Also make sure you pull a couple extra wires in your walls or conduit so you have them for an extra circuit here and there, (if not all three, at least do one extra with each run to use as a pull wire later just in case). And how about a computer area... a dozen outlets there would help for sure - lol, but consider it being a dedicated circuit so nothing else you're doing (when it overloads or spikes) screws with it - especially if it's going to be a data computer.

Yep, any machinery you think you might need later is a valuable thing to think about now... even if it's small stuff like this that you might grow into something bigger later.




Good stuff on the outlets Sum - where were ya when I needed you!?!
Todd

Offline Sumner

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2008, 01:59:28 PM »
PJ,

My Brick/Block walls are 44 inches above the concrete shop floor, the outlets will be another 16 inches up the sheetrock wall, so total outlet height will be about 60 inches off the floor around the entire perimeter of the shop.

I was looking at the new Miller 180 (with auto set) it can weld 25ga up to 5/16 inch thick. I can not imagine needing to weld more than 1/4 stock,, so the 5/16th rating should be good enough (keep in mind the last time I welded it was metal shop in Jr. High (Pilot Butte Jr High, Bend Oregon) and then Auto Shop at Ruston High and Louisanna Tech in Ruston La.) many many years ago and it was a Lincoln stick welder. Plus  I was not very good at it.

Thanks for the info, Talk to you Tuesday night in chat.

Charles

The Miller 180 would be a good welder for you as like you mentioned it will do the thin stuff and about anything you would ever do car related.  Take the ratings with a grain of salt.  For instance it would be very hard to weld 5/16 thick square tubing onto another one of the same thickness in say a "T" joint.  Just not enough heat to get good penetration.  I don't feel comfortable with my Miller 175 on anything over 3/16 inch.  That 5/16 would be two pieces of 5/16 butt welded with the edges beveled.  Most everything you will do will be .120 and the 180 will work fine.

I also talked to a Miller distributor and he said some beginners get into trouble with the "auto-set" as it is not enough heat for some welds you would do, so if in doubt go a little hotter.  Like I mentioned someone who can weld spending an hour or two with you would get you to the place of making better welds and making sure that you had adequate penetration.  With a MiG it is easy to get a good looking weld that doesn't have good penetration.  Just make sure you have good heat tracks in both pieces you are welding and you will be good to go.

I have a TIG now also, but for the first welder and the more practical one I would start with a MIG.

c ya,

Sum

Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2008, 02:20:38 PM »
Thanks Sum,  I have a few friends that are excellent welders (one of them said even a Monkey can learn to weld,, so I called him Cheeta and he got mad,,, LOL)

No kidding, I think I can learn on a Mig.  Once in the new Shop I will probably get the Miller 180 as a "starter".

Looks like the Miller 180 with another spool attachement can also weld Alum ??

Charles

ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

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Offline Sumner

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2008, 02:39:53 PM »
.............Them TV shows need sponsor cash Charles... probably great stuff, I just know that there's no reason in the world someone like me needs that type of piping. Regular old 1/2" white schedule 40 PVC is what I was taught to use (by my dad), and have ever since. I even buried it and ran 200' under ground to my shed at my last house(under the freeze line of course). You'll get guys that say not to use it, but so far they are always guys that have never used it :roll:....................Todd

Good advice.  I've been using the PVC also for some time with no problems and will continue.  On the compressor Charles I wouldn't worry if it was 60 or 80 gallon, just make sure it is a 2-stage and that doesn't mean 2 cylinder.  I started with a 2 cylinder and used it for years and finally this last spring got a 2 stage from HF, about the same as the other stores sell.  I should of done this from the beginning as it was only a couple hundred more.  You should find one in the $800-$900 range.  I know some don't like HF, but one thing I like about them where I live is the maximum freight is $50.  I paid $50 apiece to get my 2500 lb. mill to me and my 2000 lb. lathe to me and the 2 stage compressor to me, saving hundreds in freight.

.............Good stuff on the outlets Sum - where were ya when I needed you!?!....Todd

Right were I'm suppose to be, hiding in SE Utah,

Sum

Offline Sumner

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2008, 02:44:45 PM »
..........Looks like the Miller 180 with another spool attachement can also weld Alum ??
Charles

Not really as far as I'm concerned and as far as a couple Miller distributors are concerned.  From what they told me you can't weld thin aluminum (like body panels) with a spool guy very well if at all and the 180 just doesn't have enough heat to weld the thicker stuff.  I have a good friend that has a 250 Miller that has worked fine for him welding thick plate for his semi's and he has a 110 volt Miller Mig for welding the thin steel for body work on cars.

I wish it would have worked as I had the 180, but a TIG will just do so much better than a spool guy.  I got a Lincoln 225 Tig and love it.

c ya,

Sum

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2008, 03:51:40 PM »
Charles:

If you're going to spend the money only once I'd go for a 210 or I think now they call it a 212. It's got way more oomph than the 180 and will do a useful job with a spool gun. I sold Miller for quite a while and still work for a company that does. The extra money you spend now will more than repay itself. The machine is so much more satisfactory. The 180's get replaced rather regularly by the 210/212. People tend to buy the 180 to save a few dollars and then find they have to go elsewhere as soon as they need to do a small repair on the trailer or something similar. My advise is to save yourself some frustration. The auto-set feature on the 180 is definitely for beginners. It tends to weld on the cold side which means you don't get the full penetration that the machine's capable of. You want penetration when you're welding on race cars and support equipment.

Pete

Offline willieworld

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2008, 03:57:29 PM »
hey guys  in some areas pvc is not allowed to be used as airline and for a good reason --if you have a fire  and your compressor is full of air --well you get the idea--if it was me i would put a shutoff valve at the compressor tank or drain the system when not in the shop----no plastic air line here----just some thoughts---willie buchta
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Offline Cajun Kid

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2008, 04:07:15 PM »
Whichever way I go with  hard air lines I had always planned on a cutoff valve between Compressor and airline manifold.
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
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LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

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Offline doug odom

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2008, 04:43:27 PM »
Yes, I remember 31 years ago when I built my shop they warned me not to use PVC for air lines because they would not live. So as soon as one  breaks I'm going to change them.
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Offline manta22

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Re: Shop Expansion - Let's Go Racin !!!
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2008, 04:50:19 PM »
When PVC "breaks" in an air line service it shatters-- sharp pieces go flying everywhere. PVC=NFG.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ