Author Topic: Car 3522  (Read 12881 times)

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Offline RayTheRat

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Car 3522
« on: September 04, 2008, 11:13:45 AM »
I've been asked about car #3522 (G/GC Firebird):


A friend is interested in the motor in it.  G class is 1500-2000cc.  Could it be a 1650 bike motor?  I don't know anything about it or the motor.  Help?

Anybody?  Bueller?

RtR
ps...there are some attempts at "artsy-fartsy" shots on my server at
http://www.chevyasylum.com/bsf2008/sw/af/af.html if yer interested.

Offline fwillyj

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2008, 11:25:28 AM »
-car belongs to Jack Iliff from Maryland----engine is a 122ci inline 4 cylinder based on an aftermarket cast iron block called "Kansas block"----it has a SBC head.

Offline Sumner

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2008, 11:31:05 AM »
-car belongs to Jack Iliff from Maryland----engine is a 122ci inline 4 cylinder based on an aftermarket cast iron block called "Kansas block"----it has a SBC head.

I googled "Kansas block" without any luck.  Is it anything like the 1/2 V-8 Secos's??  I'd like to know more,

Sum

Offline GeneF

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2008, 11:44:27 AM »
-car belongs to Jack Iliff from Maryland----engine is a 122ci inline 4 cylinder based on an aftermarket cast iron block called "Kansas block"----it has a SBC head.

I googled "Kansas block" without any luck.  Is it anything like the 1/2 V-8 Secos's??  I'd like to know more,

Sum

Try Kansas Racing Products/KRP- It's a variation of the Pont./Chevy2

Offline RayTheRat

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2008, 11:44:59 AM »
Thanks, fwillyj.  That was just what I was lookin for.

RtR

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2008, 11:45:05 AM »
http://www.kansasracingproducts.com/About_the_Block.html

Sprint car / Oval track technology.

I think I'd go Ecotec given the choice though.  It's similiar to a DOHC 4v motorcycle engine, and Chevy has publically released how to trick them out for racing.  


Offline DCarr511

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2008, 12:57:24 PM »
The Kansas Blocks can be had with differant head bolt configurations and are designed for Racing and high HP. They might offer other options also.

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2008, 01:12:44 PM »
What a nice looking car!! :-D

Bill (fwillyj) is correct. It is basically an "Iron Duke"/Tech IV/ SD Pontiac 4cyl. ( not the same as the old Chevy II thought similar) You recall Pontiac did have a SD block for a while and promoted it in several race series in the 80's.  DOHC etc put that engine out of business and GM no longer manufactures it. Kansas Racing Products (KRP) has the rights and casts a new block with upgrades even over the SD block.  Any SBC, and some Ford/Mopar heads can be made to fit and they have part numbers so engines so configured can run in make specific classes. I know a number of people using the block/engine combo in Comp Eliminator racing and they are still used I understand in midgets and were also an ARCA truck engine before they went V-6.

My engine is debored (from factory, didn't sleeve it) to 3.875 (normal is 4") and with 2.58 stroke for 121.7ci.  It has a SBC head with custom intake for injection made by a guy who races similar in Comp eliminator. I know of an engine in a comp car with 202" made 465@9500 on dyno with a single carb so they can be bored/stroked a fair amount and the block is strong.

Having run Cosworth Vegas for years at Bonneville, this engine was a step back technology wise (pushrod engine) It is stronger and makes more power.  Folks had suggested I just put a Honda in it but that offended my tender sensibilities and I wanted a different direction so this is what I did.  Considered the Ecotec and we have seen Ron Main and the GM Cobalts do well with that engine on the Salt.

Jack
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 01:21:51 PM »
-car belongs to Jack Iliff from Maryland----engine is a 122ci inline 4 cylinder based on an aftermarket cast iron block called "Kansas block"----it has a SBC head.

I googled "Kansas block" without any luck.  Is it anything like the 1/2 V-8 Secos's??  I'd like to know more,

Sum
Sumner- I think the other posts answered your question.  Effectively it is half a SBC but the configuration is the Iron duke 4 cyl. it takes SBC parts for many things ( bearings are same size as 283 but main set is sl different (thrust bearing). Rods are SBC. Balancer, flywheel etc are SBC and with, on this engine, SBC head can use that valve train etc. there are still available a high port SD Pontiac head that is supposed to flow pretty well if you have a block drilled for the Pontiac bolt pattern. there is floating around a booklet from pontiac that shows how to "hot rod" one of these engines with prep tricks.  The Sesco's were like (IIRC) the slant 4 Pontiac did early 60's that was a 389 with a bank lopped off.
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline Sumner

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 01:36:22 PM »
-car belongs to Jack Iliff from Maryland----engine is a 122ci inline 4 cylinder based on an aftermarket cast iron block called "Kansas block"----it has a SBC head.

I googled "Kansas block" without any luck.  Is it anything like the 1/2 V-8 Secos's??  I'd like to know more,

Sum
Sumner- I think the other posts answered your question.  Effectively it is half a SBC but the configuration is the Iron duke 4 cyl. it takes SBC parts for many things ( bearings are same size as 283 but main set is sl different (thrust bearing). Rods are SBC. Balancer, flywheel etc are SBC and with, on this engine, SBC head can use that valve train etc. there are still available a high port SD Pontiac head that is supposed to flow pretty well if you have a block drilled for the Pontiac bolt pattern. there is floating around a booklet from pontiac that shows how to "hot rod" one of these engines with prep tricks.  The Sesco's were like (IIRC) the slant 4 Pontiac did early 60's that was a 389 with a bank lopped off.

Thanks for the info.  That is an interesting motor and I like the fact that a lot of the cheaper SBC stuff could be used on it.  Would the block and crank be good up to 800-900 hp in a lower rpm (under 7500) blown application??  I would imagine that the newer LS series heads would not bolt up??

c ya,

Sum

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 01:47:22 PM »
I have a Moldex crank.  Some of the stock stuff would not use. The 3.6marine is supposed to be good and KRP markets a nodular Iron crank that is a step up from the stock. I am not aware of any current blown applications but I am sure someone has done so. The block is very compact and heavy and I am sure it could take that power easily. Ron Main is using a Mopar block these days which is also a Midget based ( I think, don't quote me) type block ( and GM has just announced a Midget specific block that Tony Stewart racing is going to be using) and it is taking the power too.

Basically you can get the block drilled for nearly any head bolt pattern. IIRC the bore spacing on the LSX motors is the same as Gen 1-2 SBC ( only similarity, right? ) so the head might fit.  I guess is possible the LS pattern might hit some structure that would make it not work but as mentioned they do put Ford and Mopar heads on this block so I'd bet would work. Have to consider the valve layout and cam etc but pretty much all it takes is machining ( and $$)
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline Sumner

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2008, 02:05:38 PM »
I have a Moldex crank.  Some of the stock stuff would not use. The 3.6marine is supposed to be good and KRP markets a nodular Iron crank that is a step up from the stock. I am not aware of any current blown applications but I am sure someone has done so. The block is very compact and heavy and I am sure it could take that power easily. Ron Main is using a Mopar block these days which is also a Midget based ( I think, don't quote me) type block ( and GM has just announced a Midget specific block that Tony Stewart racing is going to be using) and it is taking the power too.

Basically you can get the block drilled for nearly any head bolt pattern. IIRC the bore spacing on the LSX motors is the same as Gen 1-2 SBC ( only similarity, right? ) so the head might fit.  I guess is possible the LS pattern might hit some structure that would make it not work but as mentioned they do put Ford and Mopar heads on this block so I'd bet would work. Have to consider the valve layout and cam etc but pretty much all it takes is machining ( and $$)

Thanks for the info and I'll keep it.  Orginally I was going to build a lakester for the F class with something similar and who knows what the future might bring,

Sum

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 02:27:16 PM »
Sum, one  other thing on my build.  After a dyno thrash I went to Maxton last spring.  Separate issue of machining (valve pocket deepened and too thin)  caused failure of all the pistons with holes in 3/4.  When I disassembled found the pins galled, hot and bushings in rods galled.  If the tops had not failed, would have had catastrophic failure on the salt .    :-(  The Pontiac book recommends a notch in the rod at the beam to spray oil on the piston bottom/rod/pin.  I put the BLP pin oiler/squirters in it and it did not miss a beat so hopefully that issue is cured. 
I entered the mile at about 8900 and crossed the line at the 3 at 9350 my best run, shifting 9500+.  :-)
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline RichFox

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 02:48:45 PM »
I believe a similar block is available form Joe Fontana

Offline jacksoni

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Re: Car 3522
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 03:05:53 PM »
Is very similar, aluminum and with complete engines, sorted available. I think the block is ChevyII rather than SD Pontiac though the differences are not big the parts don't interchange.  Esslinger also builds midget motors but I think Ford based.   Ed Pink too?
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019