Author Topic: Propster is illegal, Why?  (Read 37481 times)

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Offline Glen

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2008, 01:03:50 PM »
Reruns again
Glen
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Offline AJR192

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2008, 01:42:23 PM »
How do you claim to have a proactive view to the future when everything you post about is twenty years old. Everyone who has ever replied to your posts has more than proved they are capable of logical arguements. YOU are the one who reposts statements and verses that don't specifically answer questions or opinions people have of you. As far as having open minds, you have no clue what an open mind is. You have never given consideration that someone other than you might be right. It has alwys been and always will be that you are the one with the answers. But, If all your doomsday predictions on car construction and safety gear were correct, why hasn't everyone who has crashed in a LSR venue died? I doubt anyone has realy followed your advice, but they lived anyway. Do you only live for the ridicule? The world has enough martyrs Franklin, you can quit trying to be one too.

John Romero

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2008, 01:50:13 PM »
If Franklin is serious, I suggest he give Mike Cook a call. No safety inspection and a simply run for outright speed and a FIA record.

Quote
TOP 1 OIL WORLD LAND SPEED SHOOTOUT
Tuesday, 12 August 2008

TOP 1 OIL WORLD LAND SPEED SHOOTOUT TO FIND FASTEST OF THE FAST BONNEVILLE CARS AND MOTORCYCLES FIA/FIM sanctioned event the first of its kind, top teams throwing down gauntlet BURLINGAME, Cal. (August 18, 2008) -- TOP 1 Oil has teamed with the record-setting Land Speed Racing veterans at Cook Motorsports to form the TOP 1 Oil World Land Speed Shootout, the first single competition ever to decide the fastest of the fast wheel-driven cars and motorcycles on the planet. The TOP 1 Oil World Land Speed Shootout takes place this September 22-26 at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Bonneville, Utah. A maximum of ten teams, five car and five motorcycle, will vie for official Land Speed Records recognized by the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA) and the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM), the leading international race sanctioning bodies. Contingency dates are October 13-17. Eligible vehicles must be wheel-driven, have set or come close to setting recent land speed records in their respective classes, and conform to FIA/FIM technical and safety requirements. Entrants will be selected by a panel of judges assembled by Mike Cook, founder of Cook Motorsports. Only two will walk away with the right to claim they have the fastest car or motorcycle in the world. The Discovery Channel is planning to follow the teams in their attempts.

Of course, there is no way in HELL Franklin would participate in such an event as it involves more than being an internet know it all.

Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2008, 02:23:07 PM »
How do you claim to have a proactive view to the future when everything you post about is twenty years old. Everyone who has ever replied to your posts has more than proved they are capable of logical arguements. YOU are the one who reposts statements and verses that don't specifically answer questions or opinions people have of you. As far as having open minds, you have no clue what an open mind is. You have never given consideration that someone other than you might be right. It has alwys been and always will be that you are the one with the answers. But, If all your doomsday predictions on car construction and safety gear were correct, why hasn't everyone who has crashed in a LSR venue died? I doubt anyone has realy followed your advice, but they lived anyway. Do you only live for the ridicule? The world has enough martyrs Franklin, you can quit trying to be one too.

Ridicule from people who only think with their egos is nothing worth any further account.

I didn't wait for Jason McVicar to be thrown off a 'Busa at 240 mph before discussing ways of improving rider protection. However, the only credit I can take for that one is having learned from someone much smarter than me (see attachment, Arvil Porter wearing a rider drag chute in 1974).

Three years before Darrell Russell got killed the NHRA was informed by me about the technologies they needed to investigate for beefing up cockpit intrusion protection in Top Fuel dragsters. The NHRA made the choice of being complacent. That cost a driver his life. How far into the seven figure range did it cost NHRA?

http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Dec%202001/SOD-121201.htm

Drag Racing Story of the Day!
Fire Protection and Cockpit Intrusion
(Letters to Dick Wells)

By Franklin Ratliff

Dick Wells is 25% of the Board of Directors of the NHRA.

The following e-mails relate to concepts I first publicly proposed during my interview with Bret Kepner, published in the October 1999 issue of Drag Racing USA, and which I've continued to promote in on-line forums such as Nitronic Research and Drag Racing Underground. FR

October 19th, 2001

Dear Mr. Wells,

As I pointed out in my September 5th letter (below), there is no good reason for drivers of fuel cars ever to be seriously burned again, even on tracks that don't have a safety crew the caliber of the NHRA Safety Safari.

To address cockpit intrusion problems in dragsters, I suggest double-frame construction for the cockpit portion of the frame. The exterior frame could use arched instead of flat frame members with the exterior frame mounted to the interior frame through chromemoly plate diaphragms to spread the load. The use of double-frame construction would also simplify the creation of fully enclosed driver capsules for Top Fuel cars since the space between the interior and exterior frames could be filled with insulation. I suggest making the transparent portion of the canopy as small as practical, perhaps using double-glazing with tempered Pyrex glass for the outside and quarter-inch polycarbonate for the inside.

To solve some of the driver egress problems associated with installing a fully enclosed driver capsule in a Funny Car, an opening could be left in the body. The capsule could be built to match the contour of the body so that the capsule actually serves as part of the body. Several months ago Brent Fanning of Udder Nonsense Racing pointed out to me that even in existing Funny Cars because the cockpit is relatively well sealed, ram air can be used to pressurize the cockpit and keep smoke out while the car is in motion.

Sincerely,

Franklin Ratliff
------------------

September 5th, 2001

Dear Mr. Wells,

Below is why over two years ago I first proposed the concept of an X-15 style fireproof capsule that even in a fully engulfed car would keep the driver insulated from the fire inside a breathable atmosphere.

"...As near as I can tell he went up in flames in his funny car just before the finish line, steered toward the wall, crossed over to the other side, hit the wall, went airborne and then came to rest just before the turnout. The Sheriff's crew chief Scott Mason was down at that end just after the Sheriff's run and was the first on the scene. It took several minutes to get the body lifted and when they got in there, Keith's face shield was melted to his helmet. Scott pried one side up about two inches to try to get him some air. About that time, the safety crew showed up and tried to put out the fire. They had to cut the cage off so they could get Keith's helmet off..."

With regards to cockpit intrusion by another vehicle, there is a highly informative article on canopy and safety cell design in the September issue of POWERBOAT magazine. Unlimited hydro builders have, more than in any other motorsport, taken the lead in anticipating cockpit intrusion. With vehicles that can slice and dice a driver three different ways (propeller, rudder, AND skid fin) they have had some extra incentive.

Sincerely,

Franklin Ratliff
PROPSTERGUY@aol.com
 

 
 





Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2008, 02:24:49 PM »
If Franklin is serious, I suggest he give Mike Cook a call. No safety inspection and a simply run for outright speed and a FIA record.

Quote
TOP 1 OIL WORLD LAND SPEED SHOOTOUT
Tuesday, 12 August 2008

TOP 1 OIL WORLD LAND SPEED SHOOTOUT TO FIND FASTEST OF THE FAST BONNEVILLE CARS AND MOTORCYCLES FIA/FIM sanctioned event the first of its kind, top teams throwing down gauntlet BURLINGAME, Cal. (August 18, 2008) -- TOP 1 Oil has teamed with the record-setting Land Speed Racing veterans at Cook Motorsports to form the TOP 1 Oil World Land Speed Shootout, the first single competition ever to decide the fastest of the fast wheel-driven cars and motorcycles on the planet. The TOP 1 Oil World Land Speed Shootout takes place this September 22-26 at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Bonneville, Utah. A maximum of ten teams, five car and five motorcycle, will vie for official Land Speed Records recognized by the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA) and the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM), the leading international race sanctioning bodies. Contingency dates are October 13-17. Eligible vehicles must be wheel-driven, have set or come close to setting recent land speed records in their respective classes, and conform to FIA/FIM technical and safety requirements. Entrants will be selected by a panel of judges assembled by Mike Cook, founder of Cook Motorsports. Only two will walk away with the right to claim they have the fastest car or motorcycle in the world. The Discovery Channel is planning to follow the teams in their attempts.

Of course, there is no way in HELL Franklin would participate in such an event as it involves more than being an internet know it all.

Eligible vehicles must be wheel-driven.

Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2008, 02:26:56 PM »
How do you claim to have a proactive view to the future when everything you post about is twenty years old. Everyone who has ever replied to your posts has more than proved they are capable of logical arguements. YOU are the one who reposts statements and verses that don't specifically answer questions or opinions people have of you. As far as having open minds, you have no clue what an open mind is. You have never given consideration that someone other than you might be right. It has alwys been and always will be that you are the one with the answers. But, If all your doomsday predictions on car construction and safety gear were correct, why hasn't everyone who has crashed in a LSR venue died? I doubt anyone has realy followed your advice, but they lived anyway. Do you only live for the ridicule? The world has enough martyrs Franklin, you can quit trying to be one too.

John Beckett didn't. How many years was that after NASCAR had already instituted strict new requirements for lateral head support?

Offline AJR192

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2008, 03:13:47 PM »
Jason mcVicar wasn't wearing a parachute and walked away. He certainly does not need you to claim any responsibility for how he made it through that incident. Once again, your reposts, snide comments about other peoples egos when you don't consider your own ego, is what does not warrant any further account. John Beckett was killed four years ago in a bad racing crash. How many others before him and after him have crashed in LSR venues and have either survived or even walked away? It is none of your concern Franklin. You have done nothing really to help any motorsports venue. Either by support or participation. You honestly have no voice in any matter in regards to what you keep reposting the same links and quotes. You don't count Franklin. You really don't even matter.

Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2008, 03:20:48 PM »
Jason mcVicar wasn't wearing a parachute and walked away. He certainly does not need you to claim any responsibility for how he made it through that incident. Once again, your reposts, snide comments about other peoples egos when you don't consider your own ego, is what does not warrant any further account. John Beckett was killed four years ago in a bad racing crash. How many others before him and after him have crashed in LSR venues and have either survived or even walked away? It is none of your concern Franklin. You have done nothing really to help any motorsports venue. Either by support or participation. You honestly have no voice in any matter in regards to what you keep reposting the same links and quotes. You don't count Franklin. You really don't even matter.

Racing safety isn't done until EVERYONE walks away.

Offline desotoman

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2008, 04:06:06 PM »

I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

Franklin,

I explained this to you several times over the last 6 or 7 years on the old header flames site. You ask people to have an open mind but when it comes to something you cannot accept your mind is closed. I will explain it once again.

If I decide to start an organization in which I only want wheel driven vehicles to participate in I have every right to do so. I don't have to cater to every Tom, Dick or Harry, (in this case Franklin) who has a car they built that does not comply to my rules. It is my ballgame and to play you must comply to my rules, which in this case are wheel driven vehicles. Now what exactly don't you understand? How can I make this any clearer?

I have also told you over the years to start your own organization for thrust powered vehicles, which to my knowledge you have not.

Tom G.
I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2008, 04:09:33 PM »

I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

Franklin,

I explained this to you several times over the last 6 or 7 years on the old header flames site. You ask people to have an open mind but when it comes to something you cannot accept your mind is closed. I will explain it once again.

If I decide to start an organization in which I only want wheel driven vehicles to participate in I have every right to do so. I don't have to cater to every Tom, Dick or Harry, (in this case Franklin) who has a car they built that does not comply to my rules. It is my ballgame and to play you must comply to my rules, which in this case are wheel driven vehicles. Now what exactly don't you understand? How can I make this any clearer?

I have also told you over the years to start your own organization for thrust powered vehicles, which to my knowledge you have not.

Tom G.

Until the idea was finally swept aside in 1981, the olympics were governed under a myth of amateurism created by the founders of the modern olympic movement for the sole purpose of keeping rich elites from having to associate with the common working man who in a fair open competition would kick their pampered ass. The myth of amateurism kept out people who did not have the free time or money to compete in the olympics without getting paid.

I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

Offline desotoman

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2008, 04:21:03 PM »

Franklin,

I explained this to you several times over the last 6 or 7 years on the old header flames site. You ask people to have an open mind but when it comes to something you cannot accept your mind is closed. I will explain it once again.

If I decide to start an organization in which I only want wheel driven vehicles to participate in I have every right to do so. I don't have to cater to every Tom, Dick or Harry, (in this case Franklin) who has a car they built that does not comply to my rules. It is my ballgame and to play you must comply to my rules, which in this case are wheel driven vehicles. Now what exactly don't you understand? How can I make this any clearer?

I have also told you over the years to start your own organization for thrust powered vehicles, which to my knowledge you have not.

Tom G.


I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

Franklin,

Did you just read what I typed? Did you comprehend what I said? If the answer is yes to both of my questions. How with an open mind can you come back with a reply like that. If you don't meet the rules of an organization you don't get to run. Plain and simple.

Tom G.

I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2008, 04:33:44 PM »

Franklin,

I explained this to you several times over the last 6 or 7 years on the old header flames site. You ask people to have an open mind but when it comes to something you cannot accept your mind is closed. I will explain it once again.

If I decide to start an organization in which I only want wheel driven vehicles to participate in I have every right to do so. I don't have to cater to every Tom, Dick or Harry, (in this case Franklin) who has a car they built that does not comply to my rules. It is my ballgame and to play you must comply to my rules, which in this case are wheel driven vehicles. Now what exactly don't you understand? How can I make this any clearer?

I have also told you over the years to start your own organization for thrust powered vehicles, which to my knowledge you have not.

Tom G.


I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

Franklin,

Did you just read what I typed? Did you comprehend what I said? If the answer is yes to both of my questions. How with an open mind can you come back with a reply like that. If you don't meet the rules of an organization you don't get to run. Plain and simple.

Tom G.



When there are sanctioning bodies already organized that conduct regularly scheduled land speed meets, I can see no fair, sensible, or logical reason for treating racers who run thrust-driven cars as second class citizens by forcing them to set up parallel organizations that serve the same purpose. This is no more sensible to me than the "amateurism" which was used for so many years by the organizers of the olympics to keep out the people they didn't want competing.

McRat

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2008, 04:35:40 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTiG2FsXQVk

Put a seat on it, and some stickers, and set the absolute LSR.  Might have to enlist first, dunno.

 :evil:

Offline RichFox

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2008, 04:39:32 PM »
As it has been pointed out previously, the only person keeping a pusher prop off the salt is Franklin. After all his requests to be allowed to run the car, he was invited to do demo runs. Franklin refused, I think because he doesn't want his workmanship open for view by a knowledgable public. There is no reason for this discussion. The propster will never come out unless someone else builds it.

Offline Ratliff

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Re: Propster is illegal, Why?
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2008, 04:46:13 PM »
As it has been pointed out previously, the only person keeping a pusher prop off the salt is Franklin. After all his requests to be allowed to run the car, he was invited to do demo runs. Franklin refused, I think because he doesn't want his workmanship open for view by a knowledgable public. There is no reason for this discussion. The propster will never come out unless someone else builds it.

Never got an "invitation" from SCTA or ECTA to even keep the car on the trailer, let alone do a demo run.