Propster is illegal, Why?

[dirttrkjake]

OK I am not trying to get banned with only my third post and I think this is probably gonna get locked. Franklin Ratliff, I am going to ask you NOT TO REPLY TO THIS THREAD. Let somebody that races, albeit in a different arena to make a case FOR you. One reply by Ratliff, Mods, lock it. I am not here for any theoreticle repost argument about what Art Arfons or Craig Breedlove did back in the day or what some guy did in 1937 etc.

First, yes I have seen the pictures, and yes I do know that he is fanatical about calling everyone except him a fool (including me). I also know about how he will not allow anyone to tech his car for structural safety. Furthermore I know that thrust power is not sanctioned by any US sanctioning body.  I also know that since he knows better than everyone else what safe is, he would probably even refuse to sign a waiver before racing, even though everyone that races has to do just this. And I know all of this make a pretty strong case against him.


The case for him, the record he wants to run for is under 100 MPH, meaning I can go to the junkyard and get a camaro and put a rowdy motor in it and race at that speed, with no additional safety equipment minus a helmet. Or I can race a Motorcycle at that speed with just leathers and a helmet. Making the safety argument mute. as long as the speed is below 135 mph, the car should be allowed, as an exhibiton run even before tech for his record, he would have to arange the Guiness people be there. Are sanctionig bodies not allowing him to play because he is an abrassive person, I would have to say yes. further his roll cage as long as it is welded correctly  should be more than enough in the rather unlikely event of a rollover, based on my 20 years experience with racing bumpers and nerf bars of similar size in oval track applications, where we use them. If you are keeping him away because you choose to because he is a jerk, that is not racing.

After this my case on his behalf is made, it will be the last time. and this will probably be my final thread here on this forum, I'll go back to reading only.

Thanks, Jake

[Malcolm UK]

I am game to discuss this topic too!  Whilst everyone else is at Speed Week I am sitting back in England watching for salt reports on the PC.  Here is my understanding of the matter.

The dragster/lakester built by Franklin is not powered through the wheels. 

The USA governing bodies do not operate classes or categorys for cars and motorcycles that are not powered through the wheels.  Even for time only and the 135 mph classes the wheels have to deliver the power to the salt or dirt.

Therefore the car is never going to be a 'legal entry' for events in the USA.

More knowledgable people can look at the pictures and bring up problems of safety but it is a "no class car" to me and that is all that needs to be said.

What Franklin has to do is book a track on private time, insure the deal and then show the world what his vehicle can do.  If we can do such bookings from England then it would be easier from within the USA. 

If FR ever built the Kenny Youngblood interpretation of the genre I would probably cross the Atlantic to see it run.

Without making application to the governing body I would think the FIA would find it hard to classify an internal combustion engined non wheel driven car too.  I believe I know where it would be classed as it is not an Automobile, but FR hates anyone stating he runs a 'thrust powered' vehicle.

The Guinness people might find an entry for him because, if we wanted to, anyone in the world could build a propellor driven wheeled vehicle.  There were some on the roads in the early days of motoring so it is not a new concept.

Malcolm UK 

[dirttrkjake]

 yes, I have seen the pictures too. there are things that would make me think twice, but were it painted and shiny those faults probably would not be so clear. A no class car, yeah I get that but I see no reason not to allow an exhibition run, the Jet dragsters don't actually race each other, it would be far too dangerous. The main things that I would want to look at would be the wheels and axles. so as I say under 135 nothing else would matter. If he were nicer he could probably make his Guiness run in conjunction with an existing meet. That is the main problem he has, nobody can stand him matter of fact I can hardly believe I am sticking up for him but I am. Maybe somebody will consider it if they see this after speedweeks. BTW Malcolm I am closer to where you are than Bonneville only a few hours further east of you. temporarily that is.

NOT A WORD Franklin.

[RichFox]

FR could have run the car at Maxton or at WoS. He said he couldn't afford gas money. People on another forum stepped up and offered to pay his tow costs to see it run. FR still would not bring it out. Because the car is substantially slower than the donor VW. Franklin wants to belong to a debating society. He has no interest in proving a theory by doing it.

[dirttrkjake]

AHHH I must have missed that chapter of the saga, I know Keith Turk had offered to work with him but I thought Franklin had ticked the ECTA off too. I thought he was just not allowed to run for being an A hole to everybody everywhere. Run your car Ratliff, you don't need me to help you lots want to see it. so this thread is moot.


Mods please LOCK.

V/R Jake

[AJR192]

Don't worry Jake, I think FR was banned from this site a few weeks ago.
Another reason why they wouldn't let him run it for a Guiness record is that there are almost 500 legitimate class built cars that came to race. If they had to shut the course down so he could set his Guiness record, that would possibly deny someone else from setting a record in a legitimate SCTA-BNI class. Maybe later in the week after several teams left and the lines are shorter. But do you think FR would want to sit around waiting for his shot all week or do you think he would wind up causing a scene and be escorted from the event?
Also, why would the SCTA want to use their insurance to santion a Guiness world record? The bottom line is that he built a car which does not fit into any recognized landspeed racing class and built a vehicle that does not conform to published saftey minimums. If he had not upset the powers that be in the various racing organizations with his abuse and had followed set guidelines for car construction, he might have had a shot at getting a class to run his car for a recognized record. Instead, the end result was what happened on the old Hot Rod board and here, again, just a few weeks ago. Banishment.
By the way, don't for a second think he is not reading these posts.

[dirttrkjake]

All makes sense. I have no idea what I was thinking, I guess it was just that instead of nonsensical ravings about the frickin Reno air races, post something that makes sense. maybe that car could go out and go 55 mph. I was thinking about if I had a sandrail, I would weld some tabs on so I can bolt an aircraft VW with a prop on it on there in addition to my regular motor and  run one pass on VW wheel power and another on prop power. but I don't and I am not gonna spend that much money to prove a fool the biggest idiot in the history of the internet. Now if anybody has a VW powered sand rail and a spare motor...............

[dwarner]

While sitting in Wendover compliing records I have turned on my laptop for the firist time this week.

Rich mentioned that both Keith Turk and I offered him a place to run but we were turned down due to his lack of gas money to get to the track and the excuse that he had no record to compete against. The original discussion started here a couple of years ago then moved to the old Hot Rod Magazine forum. I think if you do a search function you may be able to find the threads.

DW

[dirttrkjake]

This didn't need to be brought up again I appologize. I heard about it on the HRM forum. could the Moderators please delete this thread. Sorry again. Back to being a read only member for me.


Jake

[Malcolm UK]

Jake

Do keep joining in this forum because only by taking part will the full story be told by those who respond to a posting.  As you have read, there is always a lot of support for individuals who are trying to go fast with whatever vehicle they have.  Support that often is never publicised. 

Instead of posting historical stories, Franklin should have lobbied the FIA in Paris (through ACCUS and its member clubs) for a class for the 'propster'.  Why?, because there can be divisions within the non wheel driven category (C).  Already we have jet turbine and rocket, so why not internal combustion and a prop?

Is it difficult? - yes it will be - but having worked on getting a non wheel driven two wheeled streamliner class into the FIM rule book it can be a rewarding years work.  We had an advantage that our national governing body had seen that such a vehicle built by Richard could work and they supported the whole effort at an International level. 

Malcolm UK     

[jimmy six]

There is nothing illegal with FR's propster.. It just doesn't meet the safety rules of the SCTA or any of it's class rules...If he wanted to and would accept what has been offered to him his vehicle would have already run and set some type of speed accomplishment; just not the ones we are familiar with. Guiness would problably not care as long as insurance was shown......JD

[Ratliff]

There is nothing illegal with FR's propster.. It just doesn't meet the safety rules of the SCTA or any of it's class rules...If he wanted to and would accept what has been offered to him his vehicle would have already run and set some type of speed accomplishment; just not the ones we are familiar with. Guiness would problably not care as long as insurance was shown......JD

Some people have questioned what prop-driven cars could bring to land speed racing when there are already hundreds of classes on the books. Aside from the question of what those hundreds of classes bring when they're all just variations on the same old formulas, there's not a single car in any of those classes capable of even 1g acceleration at Bonneville. Even figuring conservatively, three pounds of thrust per horsepower with current propeller technology is a fact of physics the way gravity is a fact of physics. To debate that point is a waste of time. With just five hundred horsepower, you'd be looking at 1,500 lbs of thrust. And that can certainly be done in a car with a gross weight of 1,000 lbs or less. That's a 1.5g car. Even just that would make it the fastest accelerating piston engine car in the history of Bonneville.
 
The question becomes what is the real point of land speed racing? Is the point what an individual can accomplish with ingenuity and available technology? Or is the point only what can be done when hobbled under archaic rules?
 
Until the idea was finally swept aside in 1981, the olympics were governed under a myth of amateurism created by the founders of the modern olympic movement for the sole purpose of keeping rich elites from having to associate with the common working man. I cannot see how the idea of keeping thrust-driven cars out of SCTA racing is any more fair or sensible than the myth which was used for so many years in the olympics to keep the ruling elites from being revealed as second best.

[John Noonan]

This user is currently ignored.


How did you get back here..?

Alright which one of you noobs left the door open??

[DahMurf]

This user is currently ignored.


How did you get back here..?

Alright which one of you noobs left the door open??

The door lock auto-opened on a 30 day timer.  We should have another friend returning soon as well.

[Ratliff]

This user is currently ignored.


How did you get back here..?

Alright which one of you noobs left the door open??

Jason McVicar was lucky.
 
The SCTA authorities now have the choice of either being complacent or taking advantage of the year until the next Bonneville Speedweek and preparing for when a rider separates from a bike at 240 mph.
 
Three years before Darrell Russell got killed the NHRA was informed about the technologies they needed to investigate for beefing up cockpit intrusion protection in Top Fuel dragsters. The NHRA made the choice of being complacent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vT5MSWi9GU

Early in this video (Waco, 1989) is good footage of deployment of an aerodynamic decelerator on a drag boat driver.

The chute keeps the driver stable after hitting the water, preventing tumbling.
 
Video of a rider getting blown off his bike at 200+ mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeRXI0XRNaI&feature=related

One rider of Top Fuel bikes (Elmer Trett) has died as a result of separating from his bike. Another (Bill Furr) almost died.

Below another video of another Top Fuel bike rider getting blown off his bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USwwuonAKpY