Jerico or Lenco Trans??

[lukesdaddy]

Hello All,

I am building a Streamliner and need to buy a transmission.  I was origianlly going to go with the Jerico.  I had 5 speed case on order but canceled it today because I was informed the Lenco might be better for Bonneville.  The Streamliner should way about 4000 pounds.  I have an Winters Extremliner rear and will be using a motor with up to 1500 horsepower for or more in the future.  I do not have any experience with transmissions so I am in the dark here. 

Which is better for my application, Jerico 5 speed or a Lenco 4/5 speed?

Thanks for your help.

Andy

[DallasV]

If you go out and talk with the folks with liners out there I would say 80% of them are going to be in a 3 way tie between Jerico, Lynco, and Liberty so I don't know if ther is one better for the salt or not. My recomendation is to call the Strasburg's at B&J transmissions and look at what they have. There is quite a few out there that run B&J. Let me tell you why I recomend talking to the Strausburgs (speak with Jeff or Mike) 1: their Salt folks, four brothers in the 2 club. 2: If they think your better of with a different trans they will tell you what to use, they just want you to go fast on the salt even if it's using a different product. 3: The nicest folks you'll ever get to meet. They are in MI this weekend running their TFD so you may have to wait until monday 8/4.

[Roadsters.com]

B&J
http://www.bandjtransmission.com/

Jerico
http://www.jericoperformance.com/

Lenco
http://www.lencoracing.com/

Liberty
http://www.libertysgears.com/

There's lots more here:
http://www.roadsters.com/trans/

[Sumner]

Another option might be G-Force...........

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/productoverview.asp

.................. We are running reconditioned one and they put the gear ratios that we want into it.  After doing some research I preferred it over the Jerico, Lenco and Tex Racing, but can't remember why anymore.  They were very fast and good to deal with and you would swear this reconditioned one we got is new.  We love it so far.

Now that being said I would wonder about it in a 1500 HP application.  1000-1200 yes, but 1500 not unless they said so.  I would think you would need to go to a planetary style from one of those manufactures for 1500 HP, but maybe that is what you are already looking for.

Good luck with the car and post about it for us,

Sum

[lukesdaddy]

Thanks, 

I was told by Jerico that 1500 HP would be ok since the there is little traction on salt compared to asphalt.  But I have been hearing that there may be reliablity issues on the salt.  I don't know personnaly but I want to do it right the first time.  I don't mind the plantetary design but gear ratios seem to be limiting.  I do like the fact that Jerico is shorter.  I don't think it will ultimatly matter in a car that is currently over 23 feet long anyway.  I just want to make sure I am not going to have problems. 

I will start a build diary later as soon as we make some progress on the job.  Alot of the frame and some body is already complete by Mike Kilger.  I am working with him to complete the car.  My only missing links so far are which transmission and which motor.  I wanted to run a Toyota 2jz but I have found a few Big Block V8s at a good price so I might just go that route to get it moving. 

Andy

[desotoman]

Andy,

I will tell you what I know. Planatary type transmissions (B&J, Lenco, Jeffco, etc) take more HP to turn than a Manual, if that matters to you. I bought a roadster that has gone 260 at Bonneville with a blown fuel 426 motor and it has a jerico 4 speed in it. If you buy a crash box like a liberty you better have a bullet proof rearend and drive line as they are very hard on everything when shifted. It also depends on your driving style. If you lift when you shift and match RPM you don't shock the driveline and it is much easier on rearends etc. Some stuff to think about.

Tom G.

[Sumner]

.....................I was told by Jerico that 1500 HP would be ok since the there is little traction on salt compared to asphalt.  But I have been hearing that there may be reliability issues on the salt............

I agree that if the transmission will handle 1000 HP on pavement it is probably ok to 1500 HP on the salt.  Still the transmission has to be able to handle 1500 HP because if that is what it takes say to run 375 in your case (imaginary number) then all 1500 HP will be going through the entire drive line, you just don't shock it like you would on asphalt with a car that is hooked up.  Tom made good points there.

Also when ordering make darn sure they know you are not going to use it for drag racing as most of the manufactures we've mentioned will make a drag one want to jump out of gear with no load such as when you shift and you don't want to be holding it in gear as you peddle the car on the course.  Ours is setup that way.

Let us know what you end up getting and how you like it,

Sum

[hotschue]

Lenco, to much HP loss as compared to a Liberty,Jerico/T101.  The more HP you have the more wedge pressure required to lock up the clutch pack per unit.  4 speed = 3 units    5 speed = 4 units.  Significant HP required to spin transmission.  Liberty is the best, look at the drag Pro Stock cars.  I used a Jerico and it worked well. 

[desotoman]

I forgot to say some stuff so here goes:

Few years back I had some CS1 Lenco's down at Lenco for inspection and updates. I talked to Matt in length about HP required to turn their units. He told me the CS3 with Titanium gears and parts only took
8 HP to turn at high RPM. These CS3 transmissions can be made with a 1.16 gear ratios. They are also the smallest of the Lenco transmissions and use a 1/2 inch wide gear. I believe they are rated at 1700 or 1800 HP for asphalt. All in all a good unit with some good gear ratio's available. Most of the Pro Stock guys switched to Liberty's for a couple of reasons of which had nothing to do with reliability. It had to do with rotating mass and total weight of the transmissions.

A Lenco does not use any HP from the unit to shift. Shifting can be done manually, or with a push button air shifter with a CO2 bottle on-board. With the air shifter you can also vary how hard or soft it shifts if you use some imagination and don't mind a little clutch pack wear.
More food for thought.

Tom G.

[lukesdaddy]

Tom,

I appreciate your input.  I am an engineer so I deal with details so I appreciate the numbers.  I was actually thinking of the Lenco CS2 with air shift if I went with Lenco.  I have also talked to a couple of people who suggest the B and J Transmission.  From a pure visual inspection of the Lenco versus the Jerico(type) transmission, the Lenco looks beefier but is quite a bit longer.  I was told that there are not as many guys running the Jerico transmission as there are Lenco.  I don't know if this is an accurate statement but it got me thinking.  Am I being too parinoid?  Is this purley a preference such as driving a Chevy or Ford?   Are the rumors I've heard of the Jerico not being able to handle the Salts unfounded and just that, a rumor?

Thanks,
Andy

[maguromic]

GM did a study evaluating all the transmissions in question for their pro stock teams.  If you can get a hold of the paper it should answer most of the questions.  The liberty extreme box can handle high HP and is over built. The Liberty “Z” box is 9 lbs lighter and is used in Pro Stock.  Craig at Liberty built me a transmission without the tail-shaft its 9” shorter. If you use a clutch-less trans by design it’s made to free wheel when you get off the gas so two gears wont engage at once but it doesn’t pop out of gear.  When you get back on the gas it engages.  As far as shock I wouldn’t worry too much about it.  The Pro Stock guys have far more shock loads on asphalt with their high HP motors, and I can’t remember when any of them broke a ring gear.  Just don’t scallop the ring gear and you should be fine.   If you can wait there is anew Liberty on the drawing board that has a internal dry sump system and a stronger case that doesn’t flex as much.

Weismann also makes a 5 speed and they can take out reverse gear and give you a 6 speed (with your push truck you have a 7 speed).  That’s what they did for Gail Banks truck.  They also designed the quick shift system that is common in F1 today.  It shifts without the use of forks or levers and is shifted through the center of the shaft making for a shorter box.

I think Ron Mains liner runs a Jerico.  It would be interesting to find out what his experiences with that style of box.

[desotoman]

I think Ron Mains liner runs a Jerico.  It would be interesting to find out what his experiences with that style of box.

Tony,

I don't know if he switched to a liberty or not. But I do know when he still ran the flathead in the liner and he went to a clutchless transmission, the rearend started to give him problems. It was not beefy enough and it would twist the Pinion shaft. Lucky for him it never twisted in two. After that he purchased a different rearend that would take the pounding.

One problem with the early clutchless transmissions were you could not pedel the car. When you did it would go into neutral and you would have to come to a stop before you could engage a gear. What have they changed to eliminate this problem?

Thank,
Tom G.

[maguromic]

Tom,

I don’t know if Ron has a Liberty, I only remember the Jerico.  Like you mentioned the older ones are a problem. Older Liberty’s also had welded gear sets and it was a chore to change the gears out.  The new ones are splined gears, making gear tuning a simple job.   I was on the phone with Craig today with Liberty I was going over some changes on my transmission he is working on and I asked him that exact question, he mentioned how they engage the lugs on the gears is different on the new style.  He also has a semi clutches set up that doesn’t free wheel.  Too bad they can’t get rid of reverse like Weismann.

Andy, if you aren’t too attached to that rear end, why don’t you consider a trans axle like Al Teague ran in his liner.  Al ran his with a straight axle, so I know it can be done, and you would gain lots of space.

[Sumner]

........... If you use a clutch-less trans by design it’s made to free wheel when you get off the gas so two gears wont engage at once but it doesn’t pop out of gear.  When you get back on the gas it engages.  As far as shock I wouldn’t worry too much about it.  The Pro Stock guys have far more shock loads on asphalt with ..........

Our g-force .........

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_g101.asp

...............can be shifted without the clutch (but is their clutch assist model), but it does not free-wheel and they asked us which way we wanted to set it up.  With the one way they told us that if we got in and out of the gas it would stay in gear and the other way it was liable to pop out of gear and that was the way they set them up for drag racers.  What type is it that free wheels?

Sum

[maguromic]

What type is it that free wheels?

Sum

My mistake I dint specify on my post.  Its the new Liberty.

This doesn't pertain to this truck build, but if you are building a car or truck  with a Honda B series engine, you need a reverse rotation transmission.