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Author Topic: Opne letter to Jon and the rest of you....  (Read 3144 times)
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Sumner
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« on: July 25, 2008, 10:04:43 AM »

Not in the too distant past when this site was Jon Amo's and he had temporarily banned someone from the site there was talk on the DLRA board about how it wasn't right and where was "free  speech" and such.  I responded with the following:

==============================================

How about if we call it "freedom" of speech. Just me posting this is costing DLRA money. He has to pay for the site to be hosted and for the transfer of data so that you can read what I posted, so this speech is free for me, but not him.

I have the freedom to create a forum on the Internet and along with that freedom I have the freedom of determining the content (land speed racing, cooking, girls, whatever). I also have the freedom to determine how much content on any one subject I want to allow and I also have the the freedom to decide what language will be used in discussing the content.

Anyone posting on my forum only has the freedom that I allow them in any of these areas and I can decide if I even want them posting on the site. So their freedoms are really dependant on the freedom I allow them to have and not on any other implied freedoms.

Now one thing they are free to do is, they can put up the money or get sponsors and put up their forum or site and say and do as they please with it and allow the members on it whatever freedoms they now think are appropriate.

==========================================

I still believe very strongly in that. 

At this time I'm resigning as a moderator and would suggest that the rest of you do the same and Jon I would suggest that you take over those duties at least for a while.  The reason is I feel there are way to many moderators and that in some cases we have been part of the problem and not the solution, myself included.  If and when you would have moderators I would keep them to 1 or 2 so that you can be in close communication and be on the same page.  I would also keep them anonymous.  Right now if we delete a post them someone sometimes feels we have a personal agenda against them.  For now if you were the only one deleting posts then they would know that they were dealing with the person who put up the money to buy the site and is putting up the money and time to keep the site up for all of us.  I think they would then respect your decision to do what is best for the site as a whole and if not like I mentioned above there is nothing stopping them from developing a site with their money and time.  I realize that posts and views might be at a high right now with all the drama on the site, but I also feel this is going to not be productive for the site or profitable for you in the future.  I'm about ready to sign off and have someone call me when things are back to normal.  I had enough drama in one marriage to last a life time.  Believe me Jon by just deleting all the non lsr bickering and posts and such will gain you respect with the majority I believe.

Franklin I hate to single one member out individually, but in this case I will.  When you returned I defended your right to post here, but considering what has transpired I would recommend that you take a voluntary or un-voluntary leave of absence from the board for a few weeks at least.  This board has become the Franklin board and not the lsr board that attracted so many of us to it.  The majority of the posts now are either by you, about you, against you, for you and they go on an on and are in almost every topic on the board. 

The last time I checked I think I notice that everyone on the board was an adult.  Is it too much to ask that we act like one.  If you have differences with one another take it someplace else please.

Well I'm done and Jon I want nothing but the best for you and the success of this great resource for all of us.  Thanks for taking it on,

Sumner
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isiahstites
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 10:27:27 AM »

Sumner,

            Great post, I resigned my duties last night in a personal email to Jon. I feel the same way you do.

Scott
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doug odom
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2008, 10:55:21 AM »

Sum, This forum worked great for years. We even suffered through Otto, remember. At least he built a car and came to Bonneville and found out it was harder than he thought to set a record.

 I'm a simple man so if you only have one or two people making trouble then you just get rid of them. They have the right to free speech but not to make other people listen.

Remember there are millions of real nice, smart wonderful people in this world that you are never going to have time to meet. The longer you spend with the other kind takes time away from meeting the good people.
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2008, 06:26:18 PM »

Freedom of speech isn't a concern. You are entitled to say anything you want, it just has to fit into the constraints of being relative to LSR. That's what this site is about. If the topic is non-LSR there is a section for that. If that sort of stuff bothers you, don't read it.

I find Franklin Ratliff amusing. He isn't doing anything to hurt me, or you. For the most part you can ignore him, either actually or with the software button.

In reality, since he doesn't remotely follow the rules of the forum or anything like common sense, even though he has a bunch of interesting stuff, cut him off. There is no fee for being here, he is not out any money.

Jon, you have to decide what is going to make things easy and enjoyable for you. If it becomes a headache, as it apparently did for Jon Amo, then it quickly becomes no fun.

Once a topic detours, lock it. That cuts off all debate and problems. No need to delete anything.
If anybody causes a headache ban them for two months. If they come back and cause more headaches ban them permanently.
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2008, 07:24:40 PM »

Hi, Jon -

Just a few points I'd like to reinforce here, and from my perspective, they're on target -

Once a topic detours, lock it. That cuts off all debate and problems. No need to delete anything.

By not deleting things, you have an open, public archive of any problematic posts that you can use to justify a decision. 

. . . I feel there are way to many moderators and that in some cases we have been part of the problem and not the solution, myself included.

I'd suggest that each topic have only one moderator other than yourself, and that moderators not be permitted to lock topics or delete postings outside of their own assigned area.  It could lead to confusion and could also lead to a lack of accountability on the part of the moderator.  The more clear the path and transparent the process, the better for all. 

As to anonymity, that's your call, but I don't think you need a witness protection program yet. 

Cheers, Chief!

Chris
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