Author Topic: nitrous on a motorcycle  (Read 14492 times)

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Offline racer x

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nitrous on a motorcycle
« on: July 19, 2008, 11:44:05 PM »
I was wondering . For you people running nitrous on a motorcycle . How much do you use in general? I mean if you have a 2.5 lb bottle . Do you refill or top it up between runs or make 5 runs on one bottle? Thanks for your help
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Offline John Noonan

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2008, 11:49:05 PM »
Racer X

Depends on your bike and class, some bikes run out of Nitrous and have had to resort to a larger bottle and diifferent tune up and some have found the better bottle is made by Garrett :mrgreen:

Offline racer x

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2008, 08:56:08 AM »
Thank you . Congratulations on you latest records Mr Noonan.
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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 10:28:42 PM »
Thank you . Congratulations on you latest records Mr Noonan.

R/X,
 I drag raced with N20 for a season or two and found Bottle pressure was THE Key!As it would run Pig Rich when the Pressure dropped 50% by the end of the run.We Went to 2 -2.5lb Bottles for a 100 shot for 1/4 of a Mile.Then Would Top off each bottle after every pass.
Like The Worlds Fastest said Garret market a Nonrefillable unit :evil:!
Kaz.......

Offline Stainless1

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2008, 12:16:04 AM »
Search the topic, it has been discussed a lot.  If you are planning to go fast, get a 10 lb bottle, use 8-9 lbs of it every run...  :wink:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline firemanjim

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2008, 01:35:47 AM »
Depends on size of your shot and how many gears are you going to spray in. But volume is good,double up your bottles.
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Offline racer x

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 04:45:15 PM »
Don't laugh. I am tinkering with a 10 hp "shot on a 250 cc four stroke. they have 10 oz bottles but even for the small amount I need . if it goes rich becausee the pressure drops then it looses power.2.5 lb bottles looks like a scooba tank on my little bike .But as I said Im still tinkering.I would only spray in sixth gear .I was just woundering how much the big bikes went through on a one mile track like Maxton
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Offline racer x

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 06:41:57 AM »
I am moving forward with my 15 cubic inch nitrous bike.

I have spent three seasons tweaking the bike. I went from my 87 mph first pass in 2008 to 109.7 fighting a slight wind in April 2010. Now I can add power with out waisting much.

The bike will go 14 sec in 1/4 mile@ 91 mph in forth gear.I go 110 in a mile. I am in 6th gear for 1/2 mile and intend to start spraying at the 3/4 mile marker. About 7 seconds of spray

First thing I want to do is figure out a system that is appropriate for a 1 mile ECTA bike. It is a 250 cc Four stroke engine that made 26 hp@11250 and now makes almost 34 at over 12500 rpm.

The engine likes timing .The more I advance the timing the more fuel it burns and the more power it seems to make

 I am using s stock engine But changed from 11.6 to 1 stock cast pistons to 12.5 to 1 JE pistons. That and carbs and timing have made the power.
 For nitrous I have a thick copper head gasket.I can raise the head up to reduce compression.( I can adjust the cams to compensate for raising the head) .The JE pistons are forged

Plan 1 was to use a dry shot .The bike runs a 118 jets .So I figure a 123 jet and advanced timing.Then using a Mini NOS controller I would reduced the timing advance from 45 deg to 35 deg and spray Just nitrous .And see what happens.

Plan 2 was to use a wet shot . 1000 psi in the 2.5 lb bottle and a 7.5 lb of fuel pressure with jetting that is yet to be determined .And using the same scheme spray both fuel and nitrous .Without a Controller.

 My question is what Octane fuel should I use ?
 should I use one octane for the carbs then use higher octane from a separate tank to feed with nitrous?

And what jet size are there.One thing I read says 15 nitrous and 18 fuel will make 10 hp .Another says .38mm nitrous and .40mm fuel. 
What is the common measuring unit ?

I have not even gotten to the bottle filling part. Can I just put a big 20# bottle in my van and fill up 2.5 lb bottles at the track ?

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Offline Stainless1

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 09:46:06 AM »
Yes you can fill at the track, big bottle in the sun, little bottle in the cooler, baby scale to ensure you don't put 4 lbs in your 2.5, but you probably can put 3 as long as you keep it cool, in the 800 to 850 range.  When you start spraying the bottle will get cold and drop to that pressure anyway.

Again I will warn you to know what you are putting in your motor.  Waste a pound or two and learn what your ratios will be.  Weigh your gas for the same time period.  

Unless you are injected and have a way to control enrichment don't try a dry shot...

Or you can break out the torch and see if it will cut a hole in your head and pistons..... if it won't you will be OK with in motor experimentation....  :roll:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 11:10:58 AM »
The amount that you are spraying with a 250 only in high gear is pretty minimal. Start easy and work up.

I would suggest that you work out the bugs on a dyno before you head to the track.

If that's not in your budget . . .

Gas  = 34 hp

Very small amount of N2O = More hp

Very small increase N2O = Maybe more hp, maybe hole in piston

Very small increase again N2O = Maybe more hp, maybe hole in piston, maybe rods hanging out the bottom.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
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Offline Beairsto Racing

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 02:09:06 PM »
Just curious..what exactly are you using to change the timing on your 250?
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Offline racer x

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 04:23:03 PM »
I have special ignition system made in Thailand.Called a BRT-Tis .It has a programmable rev limit to 16000 rpm and fully adjustable timing across 30 programmable steps. I change about 1/2 a deg every 500 rpm but that is totally variable.  It also has a two map memory to so I can change maps from a push button switch on the bar or through a relay controlled by a nitrous controller like a mini NOS.

The problem is And I spend months on the phone with MSD and Dave Daugren at EMS.The 250 ninja pickups don't talk to any regular ignition units . Something about the pulse width. The only solution was to make something $$$$$ or run universal pick ups and no charging system .Or mount a pick up through the cam cover. None of those solution cost 300 dollars and works perfectly like the BRT-Tis.So I was very happy when I found it.I also adapted an 88-94 ignition system that raised my limit and advanced the ignition but was not adjustable.

As for testing. I use a duyo for all my testing. Then the 1/4 mile track.And once everything is ready I go for the mile.
 The plan is to build the system off the bike and (like you said) Fire the system and measure two things.How much dose the weight of the bottle change with 10sec of activation.
And how much pressure will the bottle have after 10 sec of activation.

Once I get it on the bike I will go to the dyno.
 There I will be looking for Power increase and A/F ratio.
Going with a dry shot is NOT what I want to do.But it is not out of the question . The engine runs with very good power at 12to1 then as I add timing it makes great power and goes to close 15 to 1 .If I take away the timing and given enough octane it may work.
 Blowing a hole in a piston is one reason I got away from the thin crown cast pistons the bike came with .(Edited)

Now that the war in Bangkok is over They will ship my belly pan . So I will have a oil catch and oil absorbent mats in the pan.

I also have the rods from carrillo  :wink:




« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 09:18:15 PM by racer x »
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Offline racer x

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 04:27:01 PM »
Dose anyone run one octane for motor than a different octane for the injection? Or is that a drifter car tuner thing
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 04:30:27 PM by racer x »
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Offline 1212FBGS

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 04:41:38 PM »
i don't know who is tuning your bike but i guarantee your motor wont make it to the 3 mile at 17to1 air fuel.... is this an air cooled motor? how many nozzles are ya planning on running?....
Kent

Offline racer x

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Re: nitrous on a motorcycle
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2010, 06:31:20 PM »
toooo much sun today. 12 not 17 . The bike runs well rich. Then as I add timing the mixture leans out. If I where to run rich then retard the timing and spray just nitrous .It MAY work But I am not trying a dry shot.

It is a water cooled engine and I am planning on one fuel and one nitrous nozzel per cylinder. There are two cylinders.

I only need to go 1 mile . BUT not at 17.to 1 :oops:
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