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Author Topic: Welcome to the LTA forum  (Read 64371 times)

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Offline Bob Wanner

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2009, 06:46:41 PM »
Bob,
 What is the rookie run policy to which you refer?
Thanks!
Debbie

Maybe I misnamed it.
I refer to being experienced at one venue at serious speeds, but still being required to work your way up to speed at a new venue to attain familiarity.
We are all rookies  at Loring.
Bob W

Offline DahMurf

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #76 on: January 13, 2009, 07:26:38 PM »
Ok thanks. So are you entertaining the idea of a step down in license class for a licensed "rookie" racer from another venue?
Generally at Maxton we recommend that racers licensed to 200+ start at 175 on our track for their first run for acclimation.
Of course I'm not the one with the final say, just what I recommend when asked. ;)
Thanks!
Debbie
Miss you my friend :-* - #1302  Twin Jugs Racing
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Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2009, 12:01:13 AM »
Your best bet is to make a rookie pass for everyone. Set a maximum speed for the first run. If the surface is bumpy or there are transitions or anything that could make it remotely tricky make the first pass a maximum of 150 mph. Let them grumble and err on the safe side. The policy at El Mirage is to make them do it again if they run too fast on the first pass.

Bob, You are the Lord God and High Master and don't let anyone say otherwise. After the first race you can sit down and review things and adjust for the next race.

What is the transition from concrete to asphalt at the 1000 ft mark? Smooth? And the other transitions back to concrete 6/10 of a mile past the finish? Concrete to asphalt 8/10 past the finish and at the end of the pavement 1 mile past? When they hit that sandy soil how hard is it? With a mile to stop I would make the end of the pavement out of bounds.

At Bonneville any vehicle over 175 requires a parachute. At El Mirage 160. Vehicles over 300 require two independent parachutes . At El Mirage the requirement is 250 mph. All vehicles that have a parachute must use them on every run. Even the rookie pass.

Make a mandatory drive down the course for all participants before running so they can see what the track looks like. All the way to the hard stop at the fence or what ever is going to be the end.

Make sure the finish line is very well marked! Have a secondary marking in case somebody misses the finish line. You chew up territory really fast when you are still accelerating past the finish line. If the surface is "older asphalt country road" there could be enough vibration that somebody won't see the finish line. It happens at El Mirage, and I'll bet the lake bed is flatter then your runway.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Sumner

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #78 on: January 14, 2009, 12:37:41 AM »
Your best bet is to make a rookie pass for everyone. Set a maximum speed for the first run. If the surface is bumpy or there are transitions or anything that could make it remotely tricky make the first pass a maximum of 150 mph. Let them grumble and err on the safe side. The policy at El Mirage is to make them do it again if they run too fast on the first pass.

Bob, You are the Lord God and High Master and don't let anyone say otherwise. After the first race you can sit down and review things and adjust for the next race.

What is the transition from concrete to asphalt at the 1000 ft mark? Smooth? And the other transitions back to concrete 6/10 of a mile past the finish? Concrete to asphalt 8/10 past the finish and at the end of the pavement 1 mile past? When they hit that sandy soil how hard is it? With a mile to stop I would make the end of the pavement out of bounds.

At Bonneville any vehicle over 175 requires a parachute. At El Mirage 160. Vehicles over 300 require two independent parachutes . At El Mirage the requirement is 250 mph. All vehicles that have a parachute must use them on every run. Even the rookie pass.

Make a mandatory drive down the course for all participants before running so they can see what the track looks like. All the way to the hard stop at the fence or what ever is going to be the end.

Make sure the finish line is very well marked! Have a secondary marking in case somebody misses the finish line. You chew up territory really fast when you are still accelerating past the finish line. If the surface is "older asphalt country road" there could be enough vibration that somebody won't see the finish line. It happens at El Mirage, and I'll bet the lake bed is flatter then your runway.


Good points Dean.  I can't imagine that there will be so many entries that people won't be able to get multiple runs in and there is not much to be gained by going out there and trying to lay down a 200 mph pass your first pass down the track.

I've even gone around in circles about that with Hooley and GH at b'ville.  If we get there and the weather doesn't look like it might rain the event out the next day or so I feel the first pass down the salt should be a continuation of the winter preparation and be an easy pass with some full throttle to check out air/fuel, get the driver comfortable in the can again and the crew and check for any other possible things that might have been over-looked especially if the car/bike is a 200+ mph vehicle.  It would have paid off for us the last two years.

c ya,

Sum

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2009, 07:36:41 AM »
I always do a shakedown pass on motor only every year just to re-acclimate which is about 200mph.  Just to make sure everything is operational.  But after that, it's balls to the wall.  If I'm on the juice, it's all out or nothing.  My motor only has so many passes in it each year.

Guy
300mph or Bust in 1 mile!!!
 
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2009, 07:59:24 AM »
I'm with Sum on the shakedown... we have always done at least one pass with the car at a comfortable speed for the driver to reacquaint himself with the car and track.  Same for the bike. 
Yes, on a couple of occasions the first shakedown resulted in the requirement for a second...  :-o
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

Offline Bob Wanner

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2009, 06:17:28 PM »
'we recommend that racers licensed to 200+ start at 175 on our track for their first run for acclimation."
 I personally have reservations about anybody that would go over 175 on a track he/she never saw or drove before, especially on a Motorcycle. Even after taking a pre- race highway speed orientation run, caution would seem to be the proper route.
We will take every racer's abilities and potential into consideration , but will , again, consider Safety First.
Dean !,
I've driven the track in cars, trucks, and my Insight, all of which have street legal  suspension and really didn't feel a difference from surface to surface, FWIW.
The soil off-track is more soil than sandy, but still kind of loose.
Bob, LG &  HM, W

Offline 55chevr

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2009, 07:04:00 PM »
The surface has to be better then Maxton. The Maxton rookie orientation trip is not a bad idea. Competitors with an A license from Bonneville can go as fast as their license permits first time out as long as they do the orientation course. It works.
Joe

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2009, 09:09:51 PM »
The surface has to be better then Maxton. The Maxton rookie orientation trip is not a bad idea. Competitors with an A license from Bonneville can go as fast as their license permits first time out as long as they do the orientation course. It works.
Joe

Yes my first pass at Maxton was over 200 mph, perhaps Guthrie remembers.

Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2009, 07:41:34 AM »
I personally have reservations about anybody that would go over 175 on a track he/she never saw or drove before, especially on a Motorcycle.

I can understand your concerns and agree with you whole heartedly.  A 200mph all motor run IS an acclamation run for me and my bike.  I would never run a course I didn't already walk and drive on before hand.  Going 175mph doesn't even get me out of 5th gear and over a 1.5 mile run would not allow me to get the feel of my bike or the track to be able to prepare for a 220+ run on the juice.  After hitting 175 (at the 1/2 mile marker) I would just be cruising the balance of the track.  Experience levels are definitely a driving force for safety and knowing ones abilities for both man and machine is everything.  But I will do what ever the officials ask of me for a first pass.  Yes, John Noonan ran over 200+ on his first pass at Maxton (on the "Tiger") and he had never ridden that bike before that moment.  But Johns abilities and my bikes abilities were both proven so there was not any question whether or not John should do an acclimation pass.  He is very familiar with high horsepower controlled wheel spinning that goes on at Bonneville and at El Mirage.  Having concrete under his wheels made the ride that much easier for him.

Guy
300mph or Bust in 1 mile!!!
 
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Offline 2fast4u2c

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2009, 08:06:46 AM »

Yes my first pass at Maxton was over 200 mph,
perhaps Guthrie remembers.


Yes, I do, #45

My rookie pass at Texas was 244 MPH

#4

The name "Scott Guthrie" says it all. 
300mph or Bust in 1 mile!!!
 
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2009, 08:50:23 AM »
Hey Guy, everyone should ride only to their comfort level... and remember you only have to be going 175 at the end where the traps are....  :roll:  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.

bak189

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2009, 09:14:53 AM »
My first pass at LAX was close to 275mph............

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2009, 10:09:03 AM »

Yes my first pass at Maxton was over 200 mph,
perhaps Guthrie remembers.


Yes, I do, #45

My rookie pass at Texas was 244 MPH

#4

Scott,

You should have used all the gears.. :wink:  Did you run a race slick on the back and a tire warmer as well?  Or was that done under the current rules of today that make you run on a standard DOT street tire?

J

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Welcome to the LTA forum
« Reply #89 on: January 15, 2009, 10:10:15 AM »
How hard can it be to go 200+ mph? Just twist the throttle until it hurts.

Ok, so Noonan, Guthrie, McVicar and many more have 200+ experience.

Every racer wants to get in the maximum runs possible without limitations.

Nobody has run this track . . . Ever. If I was the race organizer I would take a safe race with some limitation on the racers over potential problems.

Don't forget this is the first race for a new organization at a new venue with no experience. Even if some of the workers have helped at Maxton or Bonneville, none will have worked at this track, under those conditions. There are bound to be many problems that have to be ironed out.

Driving the track at 40 mph in a rental car isn't the same as running the car at 150 or 175 in your race vehicle. No, you may not even get into 5th gear, but you will see what the track looks like, the finish line, and the turn off.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.