Author Topic: Production Class Motorcycle  (Read 6618 times)

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Offline wolbrink471

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Production Class Motorcycle
« on: June 29, 2008, 07:47:32 AM »
Hello All

I am going to be running in the P/P class at the BUB event this year.

Does everyone remember what their GrandMaMa told them about idle hands??? Because I am waiting for a few parts, I had an idle minute last night in the shop. I started thinking about colors, numbers, and racing stripes. The next thing I knew the little plastic gas tank wing was laying on the floor.

I understand the requirement for stock or exact replacement bodywork, but does a P/P bike have to show up in factory colors and emblems?

Thanks

Mark

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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2008, 08:43:21 AM »
Well, you're asking in the Bub's column and I don't know those rules, but I'm pretty sure that colors and such do not matter for production.  After all -- you've got to display numbers and class letters, and the factory doesn't put them on, does it?  Body pieces have to be in the exact original location, and so on -- but color changes are okay.  I think they are.

Jon
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Offline wolbrink471

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2008, 08:48:06 AM »
Thank You SSS
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Offline Larry C

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2008, 11:08:21 AM »
You can get an exact answer from the folks at BUB, just give Delvene a call or and email, www.speedtrialsbybub.com    Experience tells me that cosmetics are up to you. Tech inspection is concerened about the mechanical end of things meeting the rules.

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2008, 02:03:36 PM »
Color or decals don't make it go faster. No problems with any kind of paint job.

Production would be better to be called "stock appearing". If you can see a change from the production model (other than color) then it's not going to pass.

If you can't see it, then anything goes. With the exception of the exhaust system.
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Offline John Noonan

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2008, 03:10:21 PM »
You can do several things; I will post many of them here.

Bore, however you must stay in the class for which the bike fits in to OEM, for instance a Busa can run in 1350P however it cannot run in 1650P

You can also either machine the head surface or add compression with High Comp pistons

Big Valve head is also allowed

You also cannot run a Busa engine in a Kawasaki and vice versa, engine must be from the same production chassis

Stroke, you can either stroke or destroke the crank however again the bike must stay in the same class (see above)

Cams, Billet or larger profile cams are allowed (as you cannot see them)

Throttle bodies can be bored out

Air filter may be removed

Injectors can be replaced

Heavy Duty clutch springs also allowed (out of view see a pattern)

Ceramic Bearings for wheels and engine internals are allowed; again you cannot see them from the outside

Pry brake pads apart

You can run wider or narrower tires as long as the speed rating is correct for either the record or minimum in the class

Data Logging as long as you cannot see the O2 bung in the pipe (unless it is OEM on that particular motorcycle)

Front and rear blinkers, reflectors and brackets can be removed as long as they do not affix to any of the fairings directly.  On a Busa the front blinkers would have to stay however the rear blinkers can be removed according to the rules

License plate bracket can be removed however not the fender to which it may be affixed to

The bike must retain stock ride height and ground clearances however if the suspension was set loose or was "sagging" it would be up to the inspector to ascertain whether it had been modified (not legal for class)

Front forks and rear shock may be revalved however again they also must appear stock from all sides of the bike.

Ballast can be added however must be securely mounted and must be out of view.

Chain guard minimum thickness, Battery hold down, metal valve stems with metal covers and required safety wiring is still required

Must remove mirrors (safety issue)

Offline Uncle Jimbo

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 11:04:47 PM »
 Another look I had at the Production eng classification at ECTA rule book as well as the AMA-BUB suplimentals showed one line that kind of stuck in my mind. Like it has been mentioned in detail, thanks John, there was one line that caught my eye.
 I understand the concept of whatever you cant see, which pertains to internal changes, hop-ups. Retaing original cases, heads, and cyls.

I would humbly question being able to "bore the carb or throttle body"  in a production engine class.

The way I read the ECTA & AMA/BUB rule books. As per production class engine -
"Carburetors or throttle bodies must be OEM and retain original venturi size."

To me its kind of like NASCAR making the guys run those restrictor plates. You can do all kids of hop-ups to your engine, but they even out the field by regulating intake capacity.  This is the wall that the Gray Ghost is up against.  I'd love to go to a 40mm but OEM for us is 38mm. Changing the carb put the Ghost into a gas class

Shure would appreciate your thoughts on this.
From days of old, when knights were bold, and rode Iron Horses
24 Land Speed Records
M/PP 1350 AMA/BUB - M/CPG 1350 - M/CPF 1350 - LTA
M/PG 1650 - M/PF 1650 - AMA/BUB
A/PG 1650 - A/PF 1650 -  ECTA - LTA
Top speed to date 194.664

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2008, 12:55:03 AM »
Dup
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:01:45 AM by John Noonan »

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2008, 12:59:20 AM »
Another look I had at the Production eng classification at ECTA rule book as well as the AMA-BUB suplimentals showed one line that kind of stuck in my mind. Like it has been mentioned in detail, thanks John, there was one line that caught my eye.
 I understand the concept of whatever you cant see, which pertains to internal changes, hop-ups. Retaing original cases, heads, and cyls.

I would humbly question being able to "bore the carb or throttle body"  in a production engine class.

The way I read the ECTA & AMA/BUB rule books. As per production class engine -
"Carburetors or throttle bodies must be OEM and retain original venturi size."

To me its kind of like NASCAR making the guys run those restrictor plates. You can do all kids of hop-ups to your engine, but they even out the field by regulating intake capacity.  This is the wall that the Gray Ghost is up against.  I'd love to go to a 40mm but OEM for us is 38mm. Changing the carb put the Ghost into a gas class

Shure would appreciate your thoughts on this.

For SCTA here is what it shows:


Rule 7.E.1 states " Any performance modifications must be out of view"...7.E.1.4 also states that the air cleaner element, toolbox, and license plate BRACKET may be removed...

Hope this helps..

Personally I have always stated my belief for FIM is "F" the FIM!!

They suck.....and are outdated and we should not look to them for the fastest "World records"...fastest open run over a mile is me at Bonneville 259+

Fastest open record is Lee at 260+ on pavement at Maxton

Fastest MC period is Sam at 355+ Streamliner at Bonneville

DONE!!

J

PS, feel free to quote me!

John Noonan
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 01:01:07 AM by John Noonan »

Offline Uncle Jimbo

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2008, 11:50:52 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply John. I do agree with you about the FIM, and certainly dint mean to ruffle anybody's feathers, I don't believe I had even mentioned FIM at all in my first post.
 I am well aware of your accomplishments, Sam Wheeler's, lee Shierts, Don Smith, Scott Guthrie, and plenty of others, and am actually inspired by them.  I think the point of my question may have been missed.  It had to do with carb/throttle body size.  Simply stated in the ECTA & BUB book , - as per  ECTA page 57 (in the 07 book-08 reads exactly the same) - engine classifications A -1  "Production"  - the last sentence reads - "Carburetors or throttle bodies must be OEM and retain original venturi size".

So maybe I am misunderstanding something when you talk about boring the carb.   :?   Wouldn't that change the Venturi ? I'd sure hate to be in impound and find out that my intake was not legal for a particular class at that point. These may be sophomoric questions for somebody like yourself, but we all had to start someplace. Your patience is appreciated.
On another thought, it seems that the SCTA  7.E.1 - differs from the  ECTA & BUB, on this detail.  Am I correct with that opinion ?
Last question, cause I know you guyz are busy getting ready for SW-08
What does the acronym DUP stand for ?

Good luck at S-W 08 - Will look for you at BUB if your there.
Uncle Jimbo

Just looking to go faster and stop safe.
Uncle Jimbo
From days of old, when knights were bold, and rode Iron Horses
24 Land Speed Records
M/PP 1350 AMA/BUB - M/CPG 1350 - M/CPF 1350 - LTA
M/PG 1650 - M/PF 1650 - AMA/BUB
A/PG 1650 - A/PF 1650 -  ECTA - LTA
Top speed to date 194.664

Offline Larry Forstall

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2008, 01:21:57 PM »
I have raced Production motorcycles for 20+ years. You CANNOT bore carbs or throttle bodies. You can use different fuel pumps and regulators. This applies to all sanctioning bodies.

Offline John Noonan

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2008, 01:50:46 PM »
Larry,

Thanks for the Rules Clarification regarding the boring of Throttle Bodies, I have heard it told to racers as long as it is out of view like larger cams, pistons etc it was OK.

Thanks,

John

PS. DUP was short for Duplicate post

Offline Uncle Jimbo

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Re: Production Class Motorcycle
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 03:25:59 PM »
Thanks Larry &  John .  I believe that answers the question as far as boring a carb or throttle body and still being legal for "production" engine class.

Have fun, be safe
Uncle Jimbo
From days of old, when knights were bold, and rode Iron Horses
24 Land Speed Records
M/PP 1350 AMA/BUB - M/CPG 1350 - M/CPF 1350 - LTA
M/PG 1650 - M/PF 1650 - AMA/BUB
A/PG 1650 - A/PF 1650 -  ECTA - LTA
Top speed to date 194.664