Author Topic: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions  (Read 10064 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline POPS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 88
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 01:24:38 PM »
Don't be confused.  If you are not using a data aquisition system Odoms suggestions are fine.  If you are using one do what I suggest and you will be a happy guy, its very simple to implement.  If you want you can call me at 714-269-9645.
POPS

Offline dieselgeek

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 02:55:04 PM »
Interesting post.

For anyone who is building or rewiring a car from scratch, I suggest picking up the Bosch Automotive handbook.  There's but 2 pages on proper electrical systems design for cars that carry sensitive electronics, those two pages alone are worth 10x the price of the book in my opinion. 

One thing that's not covered in the replies to this thread, that should be, is the phenomenon of power coupled noise.   There's a good diagram that shows what Bosch recommends for powering and grounding various systems in an electronically-managed engine (which applies to datalogging systems even on carb'd engines), after looking at it and then taking a look at a brand new Chevy pickup, I changed how i wire cars and have yet to encounter a noise issue with any of my electronics installs.

Offline Cajun Kid

  • Rajun Cajun Racing E/CGALT 5690
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
  • Venable Rod's & Racing #805 Studebaker, #806 Ford
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 04:24:36 PM »
This is just an awesome site and great group of folks.  My problem seems resolved... I do not have any fancy electronics,  Just a battery, a dist. a coil and a MSD box (other than lights and guages etc..)  The ground suggestions seemed to solve the weak ignition problem and fully solved the slow starter turnover.

Well going back in the shop to figure out how to make some door handles and bleed the brakes again.

See you all this weekend.

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com

Offline RichFox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2663
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2008, 06:26:08 PM »
I don't know much about electrical stuff, but I have been told that with an MSD you should run an alternator to matain enough voltage for the unit to properly operate. You might wnat to check that out with someone who knows what he is talking about.

Offline 836dstr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2008, 01:33:20 PM »
Rich,

I heard the same thing!

You are right about MSD units needing enough voltage. I think performance starts dropping off below 13.5V. You can get by at Maxton and El Mirage if you have a good and fully charged battery, use push vehicle electrical to help start the race engine, and only make a few runs.

I put a small alternator on our car for Bonneville and it worked great.

Tom

Offline thundersalt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 928
    • www.americanrvservicecenter.com
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2008, 02:36:10 PM »
We run 2 group 24 deep cycle batts (80 amp hours,650 cc amps) a 12 watt,3/4 amp solar panel mounted on the rear package tray and no alternator. We most of the time keep a 6 amp charger on in the pitts. There is a volt meter in the car and it has never dropped below 13 volts even on a 5 mile pass. The ing. is a MSD 7AL with a crank trigger. This system seems to work well for us. We never started it after WF until May right before we pulled the engine to inspect. Never had a charger on it all winter just solar sitting in the shop under a skylight and it still fired right up showing about 12.5 volts.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 03:08:31 PM by thundersalt »
916 REMR
2017 AA/FRMR Bonneville Record holder 234.663
2018 AA/GRMR El Mirage Record holder 223.108
2020 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 252.438
2021 AA/BGRMR Bonneville Record holder 262.685
El Mirage 200 MPH Club
Drivers/Owners: Brian & Celia Dean

Offline Cajun Kid

  • Rajun Cajun Racing E/CGALT 5690
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
  • Venable Rod's & Racing #805 Studebaker, #806 Ford
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2008, 10:12:30 PM »
I do have a small  Denso style Power Master  alternator.. I like the solar power option to help keep a charge,,, for the June event in the heat at Maxton that may be a good idea to keep the battery charged and allow a small fan in the cockpit so I don't bake while in line all suited up.

Thanks  for one tip that leads me to another door of speculation  LOL


Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com

Offline ddahlgren

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2008, 07:07:46 AM »
You might want to note for maintainence that virtualy all failures on a car or bike that once worked fine is a ground wire that is corroded, almost never a + lead of any voltage. I have often wondered if bolting on a sacrificial anode like on a saltwater boat might fix a lot of things.
Dave

Offline Cajun Kid

  • Rajun Cajun Racing E/CGALT 5690
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
  • Venable Rod's & Racing #805 Studebaker, #806 Ford
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2008, 10:57:04 PM »
Dave,  good Idea.

Well got the new car down the track for two runs.  Not bad for it's debut. No ignition problems, the better grounds did the Job...

Thanks to all who gave me greats ideas and solutions.

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com

Offline krusty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2008, 10:35:54 AM »
Charles - I was the old fart wrenching the red #906 C/GMR this weekend past; sorry I did not have a chance to stop by and introduce myself. I wire race cars and hot rods for (part of) a living, and I'm nearby in Salisbury; I'd be happy to help you with any problems and/or questions. I would have posted on this earlier but I was overwhelmed with car prep!    vic

Offline Cajun Kid

  • Rajun Cajun Racing E/CGALT 5690
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
  • Venable Rod's & Racing #805 Studebaker, #806 Ford
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2008, 10:45:49 AM »
Vic,  thanks  for the kind offer,  I do understand how busy you must have been leading up to this past weekend and also while there,,, we have been the same way..

I live in Midway just outside of Winston Salem,  but also have an office in Salisbury on Jake Alexander..

Like to meet you sometime,,,

Charles
ECTA Record Holder Maxton
E/CBFALT, E/CBGALT, E/CGALT, E/CFALT, A/CGALT, C/CGALT, D/CGALT, C/CBGALT, B/CBGALT, C/CFALT
OHIO
B/CGALT, C/CGALT

LTA Record Holder and 200 Club Member
A/CBFALT, B/CBFALT, C/CBFALT, C/CFALT, C/CGALT,   E/CGALT, E/CFALT

Fastest Standing Mile at Ohio  203.343mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Maxton 196.967mph
Fastest Standing 1.5 Mile at Loring 213.624mph
Fastest Standing Mile at Loring 204.109mph

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii43/cajunkid5690/

Blog    www.venablerodsandracing.com
email   venableracing@gmail.com

Offline krusty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2008, 06:44:23 PM »
Charles - My schedule is somewhat flexible as I work from my home shop; sometime when you're down on Jake Alexander give me a call and we'll get together for coffee, a drink, a meal, or whatever. Or come on down to the shop, I'm probably 8 miles south of you (just north of 152 between China Grove and Rockwell. 704/798-5421.   vic

Offline JimL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
Quick checks for ground or circuit issues...
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2008, 02:11:23 AM »
Put the negative lead of your Digital Volt-Ohmeter on the battery ground post (with meter set on DC Volts), then put the positive post anywhere you've a questionable ground.  Power up and see how much voltage you read....should be very very small (less than .1).  It may look good on a resistance check, be be no good under actual load.  (NOTE:  During starter cranking you could see .5 volt but not really have a big problem....depends on wire size and length)

To check a circuit under load, for example the wire to the coil + terminal, use this test.
1.  Disconnect terminal wire and connect it to the probe end of your 12V test light.
2.  Connect the clip of your test light to good ground or battery negative post.
3.  With voltmeter on DC volts, put the negative DVOM probe on the battery positive post, and the positive DVOM probe at the test light probe (BEFORE the bulb).
4.  Read the "voltage drop" on the voltmeter.  Again, this should be very small.  If it's reading more than a .1-.2, you have resistance in the circuit UNDER LOAD, even if your ohmeter says NO resistance.  The ohmeter doesn't push enough amps through the circuit to identify corroded copper or broken strands.

Hope this helps....the salt sure tears up our wiring!

Regards, JimL

Offline Hans Blom

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: Glass Cars, Grounds and Ignition questions
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2008, 04:50:29 PM »
Vic, good job with the 906 at Maxton...now get offline and get that car prepped! Just kidding, I hear you have a schedule conflict for August???  Hans